Computer Science Diploma IS NOT ENOUGH!!! 1

[DrmWvr]

I studied over a four year period for a College Computer Science Diploma. Like most of my fellow students, I believed that upon graduation, I would land a six-figure salary job and be driving a Porsche with Sandra Bullock by my side. Reality check - after graduation and sending out some 200 CVs, I thought that I would end up working as a security guard, while trying to repay $20,000.00 in student loans. Two years later, I'm working as a Web Developer for the federal government. What got me in was a contact that was working in IT and knew me personally. The moral of the story: Be ready for an uphill battle in order to work in IT, otherwise you'll be saying "Would you like fries with that?". And working in IT, co-op or whatever, while studying will help a lot. Most companies or agencies require a minimum of two-years experience before they will consider you for an IT job. Some require five. Ditto for the job fairs. How do I like my job? - I love it. Although I'm driving an old GMC truck with a Heinz57 Mutt by my side.
"Never give up on your Dreams"
Marc

 

[xutopia]

well there was a lot of hype around the IT market for a while. It has slowed down considerably and people are starting to prefer hiring experienced workers rather then just people that came out of school with no real live experience.

Also the salary has gone down a lot. In five years from now it will probably not have gone up much either. Gary

http://www.xutopia.com

Haran

 

[garwain]

similar story for me... I was promised the 6 figure starting salary (never believed it though, since I didn't plan on living in a city anyway...) I sent out 3 CV's 1st rejected because even though I was skilled in several programming languages, I didn't know the 1 language used at the place, and they wouldn't even give me the time to say "I believe I could pick it up quickly, since I know X,Y and Z which are similar..."

2nd company rejected me because of a language barrier, they didn't think my French was good enough to work there.

3rd place worked out, and I'm happy with my job and pay.

my biggest advantage is that I'm located in a small community where companys have hardly begun to realize how custom software can make them more efficient.

 

[DrmWvr]

Do you work in Québec garwain?
I'm working in Ottawa - Silicon North. The federal government has picked up a lot of IT people since the meltdown and I think they are still hiring. The Ottawa IT situation is still pretty good with 60-70 thousand working in the private sector and quite a few thousand working in the three different levels of government. But the IT champagne days are over - so bullshit walks and lots of experience counts.
Marc

 

[garwain]

yeah, I'm in Quebec. I know a lot of people who are having trouble in Montreal to find good IT jobs, but off in the middle of nowhere, there are plenty of jobs, if a person can market himself

 

[crystalized]

Hey Guys,

I am in Saskatoon and I would say that here there is a moderate amount of call for IT people - although it does seem to go in cycles, sometimes you see lots of ads etc and sometimes there are none. Overall I would say many have started moving to experienced people, but there seems to still be call for a lot of graduates from University or from our very high quality technical institute (SIAST). I know for myself that before graduation from SIAST I only put out 2 CV's and was offered both positions - not everyone is as lucky as that here in S'toon but I think it goes to show that jobs are available here for graduates.

For the last several years there have been many articles about the shortage of skilled labour we will experience in the next several years as Baby Boomers retire. Do you think that the drive to hire only experienced people is a short sighted view that will only make things worse once the shortages predicted materialize. What I mean is every time that you have a position that could be filled by someone without experience (even if experience would help) but insist on an experienced person to fill it - you take away the possibility of someone gaining their first IT experience.

Sorry if that is not very clear, but I really think that business may be creating it's own bed and will later have to lie in it. We need business to understand that it needs to create experienced people from unexperienced people, if they want experienced people to be in the market.

AHH the circle of life (or career)

Crystal

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Experience is one thing you can't get for nothing.

-Oscar Wilde

 

[DrmWvr]

Saskatoon uh,
the last time I drove through that area some Amish looking people helped me get my very small car out of a very large ditch. It's hard to imagine that Saskatoon has moved into the IT spotlight. What kind of IT development takes place there Crystal?
I agree with you regarding the IT community shooting itself in the foot and not encouraging/helping new grads get experience. The positive side of that will be a gold mine bonanza for those IT people who have gotten the experience before the shortages occur. Maybe I'll get my Porsche afterall...
Say hi! to the Hutterites/Amish.
Marc

 

[crystalized]

Actually given the size of Saskatoon and it's position in such a rural agricultural area it has a fairly strong IT business sector. We are actually very "connected" here in Saskatchewan with a fairly high percentage of people being online and with high speed access.

To specifics

BioTech is very big here
I work for a company providing Online Market Research tools
The company I did not take the job with creates software for satellite systems
Many Internet development companies

Our "Innovation Place" is a Research Park that houses a fair cross section of the type of stuff that is here.

Basically you name it and someone here does it (maybe not quite but close enough). Crystal
crystalized_s@yahoo.com

--------------------------------------------------

Experience is one thing you can't get for nothing.

-Oscar Wilde

 

[iSeriesCodePoet]

What is this the Canada meeting place?? :-D

Back on topic... I would believe it. I was told it would be easy to find a job after my Technical College AAS degree. 95% of the jobs where for 2+ years of expirience. I finally got a job as a temporary programmer (kind of like an intern only out of school) at a local company. After working there 9 months, another division of the company hired me as full time. Mike Wills
AS400 Programmer

http://www.koldark.net

Please, if you find my post useful, let me know.

 

[xutopia]

hehe and one canadian that is currently in Paris France is reading! Gary

http://www.xutopia.com

Haran

 

[DrmWvr]

It's nice to hear from an American, Mike. I agree with your post - After my studies, I completed a five-month government work experience program converting dry government documents into HTML pages. It was really boring, but I needed the experience. That lead me to a long term, possibly permanent, government job with HRDC developing cold fusion, cgi and now asp applications. It's not boring anymore - I learn something new everyday. If there are any Canadians reading this, the work experience program that helped me was FSWEP located at:

http://www.jobs.gc.ca/fswep-pfete/student/index_e.htm

Bonjour Gary, how did you land a job in France?
How`s your french coming along?
How's my french?
Passé moi the bagette and the Beaujolais Nouveau sil-vous-plait. And regarder la belle femme en bikini.

Yes It's friday, and I have too much time on my hands,
Marc

 

[outpatient]

Hello,

If any college students are reading this the best thing to do is INTERN or find a job on campus writing reports or building DB's. Maybe even a clerk job in an office(something to get your foot in the door).I would have been out of luck after graduation last december if i hadn't done that. I worked for them for 8 months doing Access and Crystal reports and was then hired upon graduation to work on a new project. Sure, I was hired as a contractor without benefits, but that beats the other alternatives i had. Now i am working as a programmer/analyst on a major workflow and document retrieval management project that should last several years. My pay may not be the best ($35,000), but in 2 or 3 years i can look foward to something a little more substantial.

just think like you are the hiring manager
"Do i hire a person with 3 years experience for $50,000" or some student who knows how to code "hello world" for $35,000"

just my advice



Sam Greene
Workflow,DRM,DB
MUSIC

http://www.mp3.com/outpatient

 

[iSeriesCodePoet]

At the point I got my previous job, I was desperate. My suggestion is the same, take any related job you can get just for the expierence. 6 months to a year and you might have a better chance of getting a job because you have that real-world expirience. You may not realize it, but when you first start out you learn a TON. What they teach you in college is bare minium.


...and if you are just starting out in school. Find a language you like and make side projects and watch yourself excel. I don't know if working on Open Source projects count, but it very well could. Get youself into a big project and help as much as you can. You will learn what it is like to be in a project and to develop solid programs.

<WARNING plug ignore if you want to> BTW, speaking of open source projects I am just getting going on an open source web product. Most likely in java, but PHP is also a choice. If you are interested. Email me privately: programmer@koldark.net. Mike Wills
AS400 Programmer

http://www.koldark.net

Please, if you find my post useful, let me know.

 

[xutopia]

DrmWvr,

Had my website with my resume online. They needed somebody like me. Helps to specialize in one domain.
Gary

http://www.xutopia.com

Haran