Commas and listing items? 1

[LadySlinger]

This alternate way just got introduced to me.

When you are listing 3 or more items what's the more common or appropriate way to use commas?

I'll provide an example:

"I am listing items one, two, and three."

or

"I am listing items one, two and three."

I always thought that if you do not separate two items with a comma, then you are actually grouping them together. If that were true then in the second example would I be grouping two and three?

Just curious about it. If you need more clarification I'll respond soon...coffee is still kicking in.

 

[kjv1611]

I've always been taught in Grammar that either of the above is correct, but when listing one list of items of more than 2, then the second item was the preferred method. I'm guessing that the original thinking was that the "and" in that instance replaces the last comma.

If it were a listing that has groupings within the list, then I would think it would be more obvious, as in that instance, the groupings would more than likely be parallel.

For instance, a grouping:

John and Susan, Todd and Daisy, Mark and Roseline all went out to see the new Star Wars movie.

I figured I'd use Star Wars in the sentence, as it would almost seem that in every one's generation from now on, there will be some Star Wars movie in the theaters.


--

"If to err is human, then I must be some kind of human!" -Me

 

[cjelec]

Some one told me that using ; is the appropriate way to list items on the same line.

I use one, two, and three.

 

[Lienori]

I use one, two and three. There are occasions when I might not; for example:

I enjoy playing darts, chess, snakes and ladders, and monopoly.

I would use the extra comma in the above example, simply because there is an 'and' in the previous item. As far as I am aware, both are acceptable.

 

[CajunCenturion]

That comma is known as the Oxford comma and its use is optional, unless needed to remove ambiguity.

Both of LadySlinger's examples are acceptable; however, in Lienori's example, the Oxford comma is not optional. In that case, it's required to disambiguate the two conjunctions in 'snakes and ladders and monopoly'.

Unfortunately kjv1611's example is incorrect because it's missing the conjunction between the last and second to last item. The comma may be optional, but the conjunction is required. It should read
John and Susan, Todd and Daisy, and Mark and Roseline ...
Similar to Lienori's example, the Oxford comma should be used in that listing.

==> Some one told me that using ; is the appropriate way to list items on the same line.
It would be appropriate to use the semi-colon ( to separate items in a list of lists. The comma would be used to separate the items within each individual list, and the semi-colon used to separate the lists from each other.
The teams for the competition will be Jane, John, and Jason; Mary, Madeline, and Michael; and Bob, Bill, and Betty.

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[WyldeCarde]

Jeez Cajun you must be funny at parties!

Just kidding thanks for clearing that up

 

[AnotherHiggins]

Some previous discussions about this can be found in the following links:
[tab]thread1256-996033
(a particular example where things can get confusing)
[tab]thread1256-1295075
(a link to a Washington Post article entitled, Clauses and Commas Make a Comeback and the ensuing discussion)
[tab]thread1256-905658
(another thread where the subject is how to use commas)


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[CajunCenturion]

UKEWildCard - I don't know what kind of parties you go to, but I've never been to one where the Oxford comma came up.
Oxford beer? Yes, but Oxford comma? No.


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[Lienori]

As with all conversational topics, now that it's been discussed, it surely will do!

 

[pinkgecko]

My rule of thumb is that you put commas where you would pause while speaking. There are definitely some exceptions, but I know I don't say John...Paul and Joe went to Start Wars. I say John...Paul...and Joe went to Star Wars. So while both are correct, I think the optional comma increases readability, as well as being a good practice in case of the situations described above where the optional comma is required.

[blue]Never listen to your customers. They were dumb enough to buy your product, so they have no credibility. - Dogbert[/blue]

 

[kjv1611]

Unfortunately kjv1611's example is incorrect because it's missing the conjunction between the last and second to last item. The comma may be optional, but the conjunction is required. It should read
John and Susan, Todd and Daisy, and Mark and Roseline ...

Oops.



Yeah, what he said.

--

"If to err is human, then I must be some kind of human!" -Me

 

[pinkgecko]

How I read his example was:

We invited both couple and singles to our mingler tonight. We invited John and Susan, Todd and Daisy, Mark and Roseline.

Mark and Roseline are NOT associated - they are the singles. So there would be four entities - two entities with multiple persons, and then two single entities. But without the comma, that statement is unclear whether Mark and Roseline are an item, or if they are singles lumped together with the other couples. When in doubt, use the comma

[blue]Never listen to your customers. They were dumb enough to buy your product, so they have no credibility. - Dogbert[/blue]

 

[mmerlinn]

I always use the comma, simply because one rule then covers all possible cases.

I simply see no need for two rules nor one rule with exceptions. Multiple rules/exceptions introduce confusion, especially when the writer only knows about one of the rules and uses it exclusively.


mmerlinn

"Political correctness is the BADGE of a COWARD!"

 

[kjv1611]

I simply see no need for two rules nor one rule with exceptions. Multiple rules/exceptions introduce confusion, especially when the writer only knows about one of the rules and uses it exclusively.

Welcome to the English language!

--

"If to err is human, then I must be some kind of human!" -Me

 

[MeGustaXL]

You should also use the same size of space between Matthew and and, and and and Son!

Chris

Servo vestri abbas etiam quod ego mos arcesso unguentum

 

[SantaMufasa]

And...to avoid ambiguity and to enhance clarity, you should also use quotes (or italics) to indicate words that you feature as objects rather than words in their typical contexts. (You can also remove extraneous commas: only use commas prior to "and" when either

a) two or more list items precede the "and" or
b) an otherwise-complete sentence follows the "and";

neither is the case in the sample sentence.) <grin>:

You should also use the same size of space between "Matthew" and "and" and "and" and "Son"!

Mufasa
(aka Dave of Sandy, Utah, USA)
[I provide low-cost, remote Database Administration services: www.dasages.com]

 

[CajunCenturion]

Actually Dave, item b) should read,
an otherwise-complete sentence follows the "and", and an otherwise-complete sentence precedes the "and".

Or you could simply say, b) when the "and" is used to join two independent clauses.


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[SantaMufasa]

Absolutely correct, CC ! Excellent catch.

What the heck are you and I doing awake (on Tek-Tips) at 03:21 and 02:21 respectively? Are we addicts, or what?

Mufasa
(aka Dave of Sandy, Utah, USA)
[I provide low-cost, remote Database Administration services: www.dasages.com]

 

[CajunCenturion]

Hi, my name is Cajun.

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[SantaMufasa]

Hiiiiiiii, Cajun. <grin>

Mufasa
(aka Dave of Sandy, Utah, USA)
[I provide low-cost, remote Database Administration services: www.dasages.com]