CICS extention at Guard House

[DaveThePhoneDoctorLV]

I have a client that has a CICS and wanted to extend an ext. to the guard house main gate so they could use the intercom, paging and transfer features etc. This is a very busy single family community and they needed a fast way to reach each other.

There is a pedistle that is owned by the property where all the service terminates and when I toned out a dead pair with no battery I showed a 25 pair that terminated at the clubhouse were the CICS is located and a 25 pair for the gurad house.

I jumpered a pair inside the pedistal over that I wanted to use for the 7316 no problem there I got a clear toner signal and if I add CO dial tone to that pair I get a clear connection all this from clubhouse to guard house.

The problwm happens when I punched down the pair to the CICS on the 66 block and try to use a CICS ext. port at the KSU I then get a loud hum on the line. I conected a 7316 and it tries over and over to boot up flashing the indicators but I guess because of the hum it won't start up.

I have tried this with severla pairs and I get the same thing over and over again. I get no battery so I should have a straigh connection back to the CICS at the clubhouse.

Any suggestions?

Thanks!

 

[curlycord]

Sounds like too far.

Hook up a SAP power supply to the second pair of the phones jack and test.


=----(((((((((()----=
curlycord

http://www.curlycord.com

 

[DaveThePhoneDoctorLV]

Thanks. Is that where the hum is coming from?

What is the max distance I can run an ext. to this might be close to 1000 feet.

I have never had to install a SAP is it easy and do you have a supplier you can suggest.

Thank you.

 

[DaveThePhoneDoctorLV]

I found this on Metroline Direct:

http://metrolinedirect.com/nostauposus.html

 

[gforce9]

Nate,
A few things:
1- Nortel data (the digital data coming from the KSU) has a high pitched 'noise' to it. Learn exactly what it sounds like straight from the KSU. Punch it down. Check that data at the KSU with your butt set (do you hear extra noise after you punched it down?), then and then check it at the guard shack. Does it sound the same, or is there additional noise?
2- Does the set work fine when you connect it directly to the KSU (no cable)?
3- Analog POTS can work under really crappy conditions; digital, not as well.
4- The book says something like 1200' without an aux PSP. I've seen over 1/4 mile on good cable, but that's always risky. If it's noise your dealing with, the PSP won't help; those pairs need to be clean, especially at long distances.

 

[curlycord]

Yes thats correct Power Supply.

When the phone keeps trying to boot is a very good indication and yes pairs should be clean.

Try the PS or if reception has a CAP module then borrow it's PS for a test.



=----(((((((((()----=
curlycord

http://www.curlycord.com

 

[silver987]

Can you try a volt ohm meter on the pair (resistance to ground etc)? Also does this 25 pair appear anywhere else?

Wayne T

 

[DaveThePhoneDoctorLV]

1- Nortel data (the digital data coming from the KSU) has a high pitched 'noise' to it. Learn exactly what it sounds like straight from the KSU. Punch it down. Check that data at the KSU with your butt set (do you hear extra noise after you punched it down?), then and then check it at the guard shack. Does it sound the same, or is there additional noise?

I HEAR THAT "SPECIAL" HIGH PITCH SOUND YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT RIGHT AT THE NORTEL BLOCK ON AN UNUSED PORT. I HEAR THAT AT THE BLOCK OUTSIDE THEN I HEAR THE LOUD HUM ONCE I GET WAY OUT TO THE GUARD HOUSE.

2- Does the set work fine when you connect it directly to the KSU (no cable)?

YES, THIS IS A SET THAT HAS BEEN IN USE FOR THE MANAGER AND WORKS OK WHEN PLUGGED BACK IN AT HER DESK.


3- Analog POTS can work under really crappy conditions; digital, not as well.

YES I UNDERSTAND.

4- The book says something like 1200' without an aux PSP. I've seen over 1/4 mile on good cable, but that's always risky. If it's noise your dealing with, the PSP won't help; those pairs need to be clean, especially at long distances.

THEY ARE CLEAN UNTIL I CONNECT THE NORTEL TO THEM.

I have a PS from a CAP that I no longer use. Can I use that and how would I wire it.

Thank you.

 

[gforce9]

I HEAR THAT "SPECIAL" HIGH PITCH SOUND YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT RIGHT AT THE NORTEL BLOCK ON AN UNUSED PORT. I HEAR THAT AT THE BLOCK OUTSIDE THEN I HEAR THE LOUD HUM ONCE I GET WAY OUT TO THE GUARD HOUSE."

Nate,
This sounds like the problem. Somewhere between the "block outside (where it sounds clean, I presume)and the guard house" is where things are going awry. It could be just 1- pair of wire, but it sounds like you tried other pairs as well. If all the previous assumptions of mine are true, I would be looking for a wet, corroded splice somewhere (hopefully accessible). It is usually at the splice point where the pairs corrode and start to get noisy, and get an open or mild short if wet. Sometimes you can cut off an inch and your good; sometimes you have to cut back a lot more, depending on exposure and length of exposure. Worst case is the whole cable from the outside block and guard house is toast for any number of reasons. First, though, look for a splice.

 

[curlycord]

Yes already metioned..
"Try the PS or if reception has a CAP module then borrow it's PS for a test."

It is by far the simplest thing to do before wasting breath on what could be the problem.

Hook up the PS to the 2nd pair on the jack, at the phone.
Plug in a 4 conductor mod cord from phone to jack, note the supplied cord from Notel is only 2 conductor.


=----(((((((((()----=
curlycord

http://www.curlycord.com

 

[DaveThePhoneDoctorLV]

I will try the PS test first.
Let me make sure I understand. I am adding the PS to the 7316 at the site of the set in the guard house or at the KSU in the clubhouse which is about 1000 feet away?

If at the guard house next to the set then is this how I wire it:

WBLU/BLUW as usual back to the KSU port
WORG/ORGW to the PS ( use a 4 conductor station cable from jack to 7316 )

Just so I understand. If my wiring config is correct when I plug in the PS I will be providing additional voltage directly into the 7316 and the 7316 knows how to handle this?

I don;t want to fry anything by adding the PS without knowing understanding exactly how you wnat me to run the test.

Thanks!

 

[DaveThePhoneDoctorLV]

BTW I am reading other posts about using a SAP and some of them suggest that I double my pairs. Can you explain the benifits of this and how it actually increases the signal. Is it the density of the copper cable?

Thank you!

 

[DaveThePhoneDoctorLV]

Do you have the link to the SAP doc?

 

[MarvO1]

Yes, the doubling of the pairs usually helps quite a bit.
All copper wire has some resistance. The longer the wire, the more resistance. By doubling the pairs, you are basically cutting the resistance in half. You don't have to stop at doubling if you have plenty of free pairs, you could tripple or more.
Another concern is protection on your cable to external buildings. You need lightening protection for your equipment. You might already have that in place.

MarvO said it

 

[curlycord]

MarvO said it


=----(((((((((()----=
curlycord

http://www.curlycord.com

 

[DaveThePhoneDoctorLV]

Thank you I will try that also. Do you have the docs from Nortel for the SAP installation ?

 

[curlycord]

There is no DOC...explained above how to do.

=----(((((((((()----=
curlycord

http://www.curlycord.com

 

[DaveThePhoneDoctorLV]

Well I am pretty frustrated. I tried all the above suggestions and I am still getting a HUM different then the normal Nortel CICS high pitched sound when you put your test set on the block.

It seems to be comeingfrom the field pairs and I have tried severla different ones.

Here is what I have fonud so far. The only time I get the hum us when I take only ONE of the conductors from a single pair from the Nortel ext. station port and touch it to one or the other field pair that runs out to the guard house that is when I hear the loud hum.

Now if I touch the outher conductor from that same ext. pair I do not hear anything. It seems that that sound is being created when the Nortel is trying to energize the dead pair. There is then enough noise and hum on the line that the 7316 will light up and flash but will not boot up.

Could comething from the CO be causing this. WHen I apply a simple loop start line to this same pair I get a nice clear dial tone at the guard house.

Any ideas what may be going on here?

Thanks!

 

[DaveThePhoneDoctorLV]

A THOUGHT:

Could the Nortel digital signature be causing a conflict some how?

 

[silver987]

Bridge tap. Check for a terminal somewhere else.

Wayne T