Certifications... Are they necessary? 2

[mlchris2]

I am a Network Admin... all the skills I've learned are by trade. I do have a BS is CIS, but no certifications.

Where do you all stand? Are the A+, MCSE, Security +, Network + and other certifications valuable to you as a professional? Would obtaining these certifications be useful in landing a better paying job or make me look more presentable as a likely candidate for a position?



Mark C.
Network Admin - Digital Draw Network

 

[MasterRacker]

Please see thread656-1107945 which will lead to other past discussions of this topic as well.



[sub]Jeff
[purple]It's never too early to begin preparing for [/purple]International Talk Like a Pirate Day

"The software I buy sucks, The software I write sucks. It's time to give up and have a beer..." - Me[/sub]

 

[mrdenny]

While they won't get you a better job, they will bump your profile up a bit. For example if you have two canditates both with the same experience and education, one with certs and one without the one with the certs would be the preferred person to bring in.

Many large companies are now wanting experience + some top level cert in your field. MCDE, MCDBA, CCNA, CCNE, etc. As a network Admin the A+ certs probably won't be of much use to you. Mostly people looking for help desk or NOC positions are looking for those.

Denny
MCSA (2003) / MCDBA (SQL 2000)

--Anything is possible. All it takes is a little research. (Me)

http://www.mrdenny.com

(Not quite so old any more.)

 

[h0h0h0]

I take them because it forces me to learn things beyong OTJ training.

 

[langleymass]

I had an MCSE on NT 4.0, and it was worthless. I had an A+ in 1998, and it was worthless.

 

[svanels]

If a training is worthless why bother taking it?
You could even jump in any bookstore and buy some descent books.

The question is: do you take it for yourself to gain knowledge or are you focusing on the big money that miracalously appears when you show a certificate? (according to the flyers, outdoors etc..)

Unfortunately two trainings/certifications/diplomas doesn't mean double salary, but it definitely helps to standout in the crowd (but that is entirely up to you).

If I would stay in the same company for the next 5 years, I would focus on things they are looking for and start working towards that.

Steven

 

[kHz]

Why do people continue to ask the same question again and again? Do they lack the ability to search for the topic?

 

[svanels]

Do they lack the ability to search for the topic?

That is why they need the certificate

Steven

 

[nissan240zx]

Certifications do help in certain cases.
For example if there are 2 final candidates for the job.
Both with same exp but one got certification in specified field..it gives then the edge.

So it helps..but if you are solid in your concepts and whatever work you do from a practical stand point and can crack the interview..then its all u need.

Good luck..

A good programmer is someone who looks both ways before crossing a one-way street. - Doug Linder

 

[jsaxe]

I got an A+ book to fill in any gaps in my knowledge that I might have, with no intention of taking the exam. I was surprised at the amount of memorization of fairly useless trivia required. Come on, serial port addresses?? When I was a technical instructor, I encouraged my students to know where to find stuff like this, or keep a "wizard book" of occasionally useful trivial poop for handy reference. My company's certification examinations were "open book" with a functional system available for reference to online help.

Last hiring manager I interviewed with asked me about certifications, and I told him straight out that I didn't believer anything that required memorizing was not woth the trouble of acquiring. He agreed.

jsaxe

"When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro."
Hunter S. Thompson (R.I.P. Doc)

 

[DTSMAN]

Read the want-ads. Sometimes they are. If you are going to be servicing a network that runs on Cisco systems, 10 out of 10 times they want someone Cisco certified. The technical end of things requires education and certs, but the upper management end requires degrees and exposure to the products. Just my opinion, these situations are all relevant to the end result you plan to obtain, career wise.

Bo

Kentucky phone support-
"Mash the Kentrol key and hit scape."

 

[MasterRacker]

Even though this subject has been very thoroughly flogged, I'm placing this article here for outside info and also so it's available for the next person who searches and finds this thread...

http://www.computerworld.com/careertopics/careers/story/0,10801,104322,00.html

[sub]Jeff
[purple]It's never too early to begin preparing for [/purple]International Talk Like a Pirate Day

"The software I buy sucks, The software I write sucks. It's time to give up and have a beer..." - Me[/sub]

 

[langleymass]

Success and failure in IT depend mostly on the ability to play politics. If you want a successful career, learn how to play the game.

 

[svanels]

Not just in IT, in every business!!!

Steven

 

[imterpsfan3]

I would have to disagree that success or failure are contingent on "playing the game". Playing the game may land you a job, and may fool some of the people some of the time. But if you are a bad programmer, bad tech, etc, YOU WILL BE FOUND OUT. Conversely, if you are good at what you do, more than likely you'll have too much work on your hands.

To say that certifications are useless isn't accurate either. A certification coupled with experience in the field applying those concepts is a great tandem. I think certifications are more geared toward seasoned professionals, rather than newbies. Microsoft and Cisco I believe both preface getting a certification with a spiel about the fact you should have 2 years experience in the field, etc as well.

There was a day when everyone and anyone wanted to get an MCSE and figured it was a ticket to a 6-figure salary. Then it was discovered many just had "paper MCSE's" without the experience. This severely tainted the image of certifications and does so to this day. The tech schools did a grand job of advertising certs as a way to land a job just based on the cert, which was just a marketing scheme to make a lot of money.

 

[kHz]

I think certifications are more geared toward seasoned professionals

Why does a seasoned professional need certification?

I have been a Unix Sys Admin for over 10 years for the US Government and Fortune 500 companies. I have never been asked if I have certifications, nor have I been asked if I intend to obtain any certifications. (I have no intention. I would return to college for another degree instead.)

Funny thing about the MCSE, too. Canada doesn't recognize the "Engineer" designation given by that certificate because engineering is a professional and legal designation. I also agree with that and don't agree with people being called network engineers or system engineers, a lot of whom have no college education, much less an engineering degree.

I realize people are trying to bestow importance upon themselves and their positions. I could claim to be a counselor (because I had two master's-level counseling classes), but I am not a counselor. If somebody wants to be called an engineer, then become a professional engineer.

 

[imterpsfan3]

I realize people are trying to bestow importance upon themselves and their positions

A few things we disagree on:
1) Certifications are useless - Well, at my present job, I was asked about my certification and it was recognized.
2) Certifications are used to pump up your ego. You use the fact that "I have been a Unix Sys Admin for over 10 years for the US Government and Fortune 500 companies" to pump up your own ego or else you wouldn't have mentioned that.
3) One needs some sort of degree to be good in the computer field or acquire more knowledge.

because I had two master's-level counseling classes), but I am not a counselor

A computer science degree does not equal a good programmer or network engineer.

You're just someone who is against certifications.

 

[kHz]

You don't even grasp what I am saying about calling somebody an engineer who doesn't deserve that title, do you? Otherwise you would understand my example of me calling myself a counselor. If you have a computer engineering degree then you are an engineer (not sure if there is state licensing for CE like EE or not), whether or not you are a good engineer isn't relevant.

I never said you had to have a degree to be good in the computer field.

I mentioned where I have worked because it if organizations that size don't care about certifications then possibly their value is less than thought. Companies of that size also give credibility to back up my statement. If I had worked at Joe's Juice Joint, Crystal's Clothing Corner, and Herman's Pizza Shack, that wouldn't have much impact on the statement.

And why would I care about pumping up my ego on here? This is anonymous and nobody has a clue of who I am. If I was going to "pump up my ego" I would want the satisfaction of somebody knowing me in person, not being some faceless moniker behind a keyboard. So you are completely off base.

 

[imterpsfan3]

KHZ, I wanted to apologize for my comments in the above post. You are obviously very knowledgeable in your field. I have to do a better job of accepting differences in opinion.