Burnt Out! -- Help!!! 8

[DeanConsulting]

I have been programming for over 22 years. I am approaching 39 years of age this year. I use to turn out code and ideas with a blinding pace. I use to write software as a hobby, for my shareware business, and for the company that I work for.

Then, one day after working for my current employer for the past 4 years, I do not have the desire or the energy to write software like I use to. Don't get me wrong, I still love it and will remain in the field. I love my current job, and not planning on leaving anytime soon, but working on the same project for almost five years has burnt me out big time.

I guess I have a bad case of burn-out and/or programmer's block.

Anyone out there got any suggestions for me to try to get past this ordeal? It has been hindering me for almost a year and a half.

Thanks in advance,
nb


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Noble D. Bell

http://www.noblesoftware.com

http://www.noblebell.com

 

[SQLDenis]

>>Seriously though, who would want to use a .Net programming language to write a simple checkbook manager or a recipe manager


because not all of use deal with simple apps and databases with 20 rows of data. yes the wizards will spit out code for you but is it optimized. Does it scale?

I my opinion all WDPs (Wizard Driven Programmers[sup]tm[/sup]) should be banished.
Read this How Well Do You Interview And Do You Use Wizard Driven Programming?


how do you add a primary key? I click on the yellow key....right that will bring you far in this interview

Denis The SQL Menace
--------------------
SQL Server Code,Tips and Tricks, Performance Tuning
SQLBlog.com, Google Interview Questions

 

[MasterRacker]

Noble & Glen,

I think the issue is that you're still looking at things with with the "good old days" in the trench mentality. You want to solve coding problems when today we're all tasked with solving business problems.

To use Noble's example: The problem to be solved is "create a recipe manager". You solve the problems of how do you want to present the info, store it, etc. What you no longer need to do is waste time figuring out how to display menus, forms, access a database,etc. Those are problems that have been solved a million times: no sense in solving them yet again. Think of it as similar to the difference between a carpenter and an architect.

I think that's why you see the term "developer" these days instead of "programmer". There is a difference.

Personally I think libraries like Java and .NET are the only way to go and Visual Studio is the coolest thing since beer in a can.

If you've got a passion for low-level problems, business development is not the place to be. Industrial control systems, embedded systems, development of the .NET/Java platforms themselves, etc. There are still coding issues out there.

_____
Jeff
[small][purple]It's never too early to begin preparing for [/purple]International Talk Like a Pirate Day
"The software I buy sucks, The software I write sucks. It's time to give up and have a beer..." - Me[/small]

 

[Glenn9999]

If a temp secretary does the same tasks in "programming" or "developing" or whatever buzzword you want to apply, then it can't seriously be called programming. Tool outputs standardized operational data set with a single pre-form purpose. Nothing different between office prod files and rudimentary componentized forms. Like DeanConsulting gets at, especially for hobbyist programming, if the idea of "programming" becomes nothing different than assembling a Powerpoint presentation (same actions, procedures and skill sets for most part, oh and where's that option on the menu to make all the text be shadowed?), then why bother?

And with attitudes like what I've read here, no wonder the industry is devalued so much these days. Why pay someone more with a different job title to do the same thing the temp secretary does? No wonder management offshores and "programmers" are left waiting for wanting more than they really deserve for what they do.

Not grumpy at all...

 

[CajunCenturion]

Glenn9999 - You've done an excellent job of identifying tasks that are not programming, but what would you consider programming?

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[Glenn9999]

To use Noble's example: The problem to be solved is "create a recipe manager". You solve the problems of how do you want to present the info, store it, etc. What you no longer need to do is waste time figuring out how to display menus, forms, access a database,etc. Those are problems that have been solved a million times: no sense in solving them yet again. Think of it as similar to the difference between a carpenter and an architect.

Okay, let me explain this example with how it is "solved" these days (since this really is a gem perfect example):
1. Open up app, start new project.
2. Enter database creation wizard, define fields.
3. Add standard DB aware stringlist or grid component. Tie properties in component to database.
4. Add DB naviation control to form. This happens to have all relevant buttons (scroll back, forward, save, delete, etc)
5. Voila, I got a working recipe program.

Now how is this different than creating a Powerpoint presentation?

 

[Glenn9999]

but what would you consider programming?"

The design and construction of a collection of source files to express a novel process. Simply put to a lot of people in here, even the older languages had OS calls, etc encapsulated. Fine, the equivalent is forms, menus, labels, textboxes, etc. Do these things express a novel process, or is nothing done except fill out text fields.

Or to use the business buzzwords, does this thing have readily decoupled business logic which expresses a novel or unique process? One might create that recipe program using the controls, but are you really doing something to describe that process? The process for a checkbook program is literally identical. Starts sounding like office prod. files to me...

 

[DeanConsulting]

So, I guess the bottom line is this: If you are a new student and want to learn to write computer programs -- would you feel short changed in your education if you were just taught how instead of why it is??

Anyway, this is an interesting debate that can go on and on but I am not sure that programming today vs. programming yesterday is helping resolve programmer's block. I suppose it can happen to either the yesterday programmers, the today programmers and even the tomorrow programmers.




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Noble D. Bell

http://www.noblesoftware.com

http://www.noblebell.com

 

[chrissie1]

It gets different when you have 20million recipes and 100thousand users wanting to give comments. When you have another 10thousand that want to give you more recipes some f which you already have. And what makes it more interesting is the fact that all of those users don't like to wati more then 2 seconds especiallye the male ones. Anything slower then that and you will be left with 2 users in a couple of months time that is called scalling the app. And if you write your reciepe manager with the wizard in the beginning then you will have to do a lot of refactoring.

Programming is fun but you need to keep learning. And that goes for every job you will ever do.

Christiaan Baes
Belgium

"My old site" - Me

 

[AlexCuse]

Glenn - surely you can't be serious about a business application being that simple?

Sure, the secretary may be able to figure out how to drag and drop some controls onto a form, but does (s)he know how to make the form interact with the database? Does (s)he know how to write the SQL code to bring the necessary data from the database? Does (s)he know that an integer can't be compared to a string, and that (s)he needs to get rid of objects when (s)he is done with them? BTW, the secretary has gone where cobol is going. The preferred term is now administrative assistant ;-)

It is OK to complain about how you don't like OOP and how you think programming is too easy these days. It is NOT ok to insult people who are programming these days, just because you have a misguided notion that all they do is drag around some controls on a form.

And for the record (at some point, someone was interested), I learned .net as a hobbyist programmer, and only recently have I started using it at work. I would by no means consider myself an expert, but I do alright with it. So no, I don't think it has been made too complicated for the hobbyist programmer. Both microsoft and sun have great documentation sites when you get stuck with something, and there is this place called Tek-Tips (and hundreds of other sites like it) as well. Ever heard of it? ;-)


Ignorance of certain subjects is a great part of wisdom

 

[monksnake]

What about us that use Textpad to write all our programs Glen??

<.

 

[chrissie1]

So, I guess the bottom line is this: If you are a new student and want to learn to write computer programs -- would you feel short changed in your education if you were just taught how instead of why it is??

Lets take webservices as an example since that seems to be the hype these days and people want to use them. So MS has provided the wizard to do all the nasty stuff for you. And so people start sending very nasty things over the webservice like datasets and guess what it works with MS.

But people who know better and have taken the time to learn the inner workings of WS will know that it won't last and that is bound for disaster. But hey most people don't care that WS is just and XML message wrapped in A SOAP enveloppe that was meant to work in multiple language.

Christiaan Baes
Belgium

"My old site" - Me

 

[Glenn9999]

So, I guess the bottom line is this: If you are a new student and want to learn to write computer programs -- would you feel short changed in your education if you were just taught how instead of why it is??

Let me answer this with an example of something I saw in one of those forums. A question came asking for a "component to search a table (or array) for a specific value." See the problem yet? Evidently this person was so ill versed in their education that (evidently) all they were taught was components and not the application of logic to devise a process to solve a problem. And it's a simple one, too, to at least get done. Iterate through the table, test the value for what you're looking for, report back the table position. If you hit the end of the table, then report "not found". How hard can that be?

If I was not taught the ability to apply logic to programming code to express a process as a new student, then yes, I would definitely be shortchanged (even if I don't know or feel that I am...and many don't).

 

[Glenn9999]

Anything slower then that and you will be left with 2 users in a couple of months time that is called scalling the app.

Wait isn't the DB control supposed to handle that for me (Delphi's claims to support most of the major PC ones I'm aware of)? And if that doesn't work, isn't there supposed to be a DBA that's supposed to handle the database so it can handle 200 million records and that many transactions?
Why should I worry about those things when I got the component programmer and the DBA to worry about those for me?

(hope you see where that was going)

 

[monksnake]

Glenn, because that one person wasn't smart enough to find a value in an array doesn't mean that programmers as a whole don't know what they are doing.

I will admit that competence levels at work are probably at an all-time low, but I wouldn't blame that on education.

I'd blame it on lazy people.

<.

 

[LNBruno]

The problem to be solved is "create a recipe manager".

1. Get a box.
2. Get a pack of index cards.
3. Get a pen.
4. Start scribbling.

Does the expression "the proper tool for the job" mean anything anymore? Oh, that's right! I forgot:

When the only tool you have is a hammer, every screw looks like a nail.

< M!ke >
I am not a hamster and life is not a wheel.

 

[chrissie1]

I think Mike is the smart one in here.

Christiaan Baes
Belgium

"My old site" - Me

 

[AlexCuse]

A question came asking for a "component to search a table (or array) for a specific value." See the problem yet?

You will have no arguments from me on this one. I believe the technical term for someone like that is an 'Uncle Rico'. But it is important to remember not to let a few poorly trained programmers ruin the reputation of a whole field.

I have taken one programming class in my whole life (it was a java class that I took this summer as a prerequisite for grad school -- because I don't have undergrad work in comp sci, they decided to squeeze some more money out of me ), but I would feel short changed if I was not taught at least a little about why it is. I think the example you cite though is a problem of someone who has never been taught anything, and is probably incredibly unqualified for their position.

This brings up the issue of why can any good speaker who knows a few buzzwords scheme their way into an IT position, but lets not take the thread any further off topic

Ignorance of certain subjects is a great part of wisdom

 

[SQLDenis]

>>Wait isn't the DB control supposed to handle that for me

I have about a billion rows
now the person writing the SQL will have to know how to write optimized sargable code.
The stupid wizard in VS gets all rows and then does paging client side, good luck with that

>>isn't there supposed to be a DBA that's supposed to handle the database so it can handle 200 million records and that many transactions?

Maybe, maybe not, what if there is no DBA and YOU have to write the SQL and index the DB and all that fun stuff.
How will the wizard help you then?


Denis The SQL Menace
--------------------
SQL Server Code,Tips and Tricks, Performance Tuning
SQLBlog.com, Google Interview Questions

 

[monksnake]

I believe the technical term for someone like that is an 'Uncle Rico'.

I like that term, I hope that term takes the world by storm.

'Uncle Rico', hahahahahhhhahahaahah

Isn't that the guy on Napoleon Dynamite?

<.

 

[JCreamerII]

Guys,

Do you remember when we used to have to make our programs idiot proof. Before to long any idiot will be able to make a program, and I mean that in the nicest way possible.

Jim C.