Best Practice for Frequency of Upgrading the Firmware on the IPO?

[stownsend]

Best Practice for Frequency of Upgrading the Firmware on the IPO? If its Working?

We purchased out IPO500v1 with R5. It was working well until we introduced SIP Trunking. Form there we Upgraded to R8.0(44) SIP Trunking is still not 100% (or so says the SIP Provider)

With our old Legend an Magix Systems we Updated the Firmware maybe 3-4 times in 20 years.

Thanks!

 

[tlpeter]

It depends if you have bugs or not or if you want new features.
I upgrade our inhouse system to every new release.
But if it is stable and you do not need new features then don't upgrade.


BAZINGA!

I'm not insane, my mother had me tested!

 

[stownsend]

I guess figuring out if the Quirks of the system are Bugs or?

We have Several issues with SIP Trunking:
Registrations, Caller ID, Calls not hanging up, replies from the Provider going unacknowledged.

Hard to say if its bugs, Configuration or the Provider.

Being on R8.0(44) is there a newer version that handles SIP trunking better?

Thanks!

 

[gwebster]

IP Office is a computer which runs on custom hardware. How often do you upgrade the software on the other computers in your office?

 

[holdmusic34]

There is a caveats list for known faults with expected release corrections.
There is also a technical bulletin for each release which notifies of issues addressed.
8.0 won't be supported forever. 8.2 is scheduled for August.
Having to upgrade later during a fault before Avaya can assist could be annoying and cost you time at a moment when time is of the essence.

 

[stownsend]

I do not think that is a Fair comparison. This is not a desktop computer. Things that are Critical Like this that run on Custom Hardware are typically not Upgraded unless the underlying reason for having it needs to be changed.

The Firware in the Hardware that runs our Automates Storage and retreival of Inventory Items has never been upgraded in 15 years. It works great...

SQL Server's OSs are never Upgraded until we upgrade SQL. We do not Upgrade SQL until we Upgrade the Accountting System that it runs on. Which at $150K per Upgrade, it does not happen very often.

Terminal Servers get Patches and Windoes Updates, but never an OS Update until the Next Majot Version and even then not until all of the Software on it is 100% Compatible. We still have 2003 R2 Servers for this reason. We have a 2008 R2 Terminal Server too running many of the user's Desktops and wont update to 2012 until the Core software runs on it.

Desktops are mostly Windoes 7, but we do have some with XP as they cannot run thir Apps in a Vista/7 environment. Win8 is worthless in our Business environment so far as I've seen, so that will not be installed wide spread for some time.

 

[DennyHeack]

Sounds like you're having routing/firewall issues.

If you could post some more information about your setup?

 

[stownsend]

@DennyHeack Its really hard to say, though I believe it is the Communications to the SIP Provider. We can get things working, though the Provider has to 'compensate for the inadequacies of the Avaya' Saying that all of the tweaks are not typically necessary. Or I don't know why the Avaya is doing XYX or not Responding to RFC #### protocol. I believe the Provider is using FreeSwitch.

A few Examples.

Calls wont hang up, so they do something on their end, and they hang up, though complain that its not something they normally need to do with 'other' SIP devices.

Calls to numbers that are not working or are disconnected come back with a Busy Signal, not a Message or tone saying its not a working number.

When IPO is behind a Firewall and Communicates with Provider with Fixed External IP Address, the re-Invite triggers a renegotiation that then tries to reconnect with the Internal IP Address and not the External IP Address, Call Fails after 120 seconds.

Touchtones are iffy. Provider had to do Special routing/handling of calls to get TouchTones to pass through to called number regardless of DTMF Support settings.

Faxing Never worked. G.711 or T38.

If a newer version of the IPO Firmware is better at handling SIP, then I'm all for the upgrade. Though If there is not that much improvement to the SIP implementation then I'm not that interested as everything else (besides the funny letters after user's names) is fine.

Thanks,

 

[tlpeter]

I do not have these issues on our SIP trunks so i really think the provider is the problem in this case.


BAZINGA!

I'm not insane, my mother had me tested!

 

[stownsend]

We seem to be able to find tweaks and workarounds, though it just worries me that it just does not 'work'

Any Recommendations on Providers in the US? Would be nice if we could use our Existing 50MB Internet Connection and not have to have a separate Connection to the provider. Though if the price is right I would be open to that.

Thanks!

 

[tlpeter]

There is where it goes wrong by not using a dedicated trunk with out QOS.


BAZINGA!

I'm not insane, my mother had me tested!

 

[DennyHeack]

The issues you are discribing are not common
to Avaya IP Office (>5.0).

However,
When you mentioned the inside/outside nat translation I remembered
something.
I have had these issues before!
They involved a Siemens software PBX and a Juniper firewall.


In the end the main problem(s) turned out to be a setting in
the firewall ("sip alg") and the (wrongfully) enabled STUN setting.

You can find the STUN setting in:
(Line->SIP Line (17?)->Transport->Use network topology->LAN1/LAN2/None
Set this to 'None' to disable STUN.


If this renders your SIP trunk useless, your firewall is probably
configured wrong (or not up to the task)


You could check with your provider if they see your 'internal' ip adres
showing up in their logs.

Hope this helps.

Goodluck!

 

[DennyHeack]

QoS would result in poor sound quality
and missing sound fragments.

If I understand him correctly he is using
a dedicated line now and would like to get rid of
it.

 

[tlpeter]

Denny, are you joking?
QOS means quality of service.
How would this give speech issues?


BAZINGA!

I'm not insane, my mother had me tested!

 

[stownsend]

The Use Network Topology is set to None.

My Firewall is a Cisco ASA 5510.

I have Class Inspection for h323,SIP,rtp Turned Off.

timeout sip 0:30:00 sip_media 0:02:00 sip-invite 0:03:00 sip-disconnect 0:02:00
timeout sip-provisional-media 0:02:00 uauth 0:05:00 absolute
Access Lists to Allow UDP on the SIP Provider Server IP to our IPO IP eq sip

 

[DennyHeack]

@tlpeter

Not joking. But I see the confusion.
Provider QoS is based on factors influenced
(obviously) by SLA agreements.


What is Quality?

In networking, quality can mean many things. In VoIP, quality simply means being able to listen and speak in a clear and continuous voice, without unwanted noise. Quality depends on the following factors:
- data loss
- consistent delay characteristics (called jitter)
- latency, leading to echo

http://voip.about.com/od/voipbasics/a/qos.htm

http://docwiki.cisco.com/wiki/Cisco_IOS_Voice_Troubleshooting_and_Monitoring_--_Common_QoS_Problems

 

[stownsend]

Seems Confusing on if you should or should not disable SIP Inspection. Many references to disabling SIP Inspection so the Firewall does not Muck with the Traffic and Drop when it should not.

Though it seems like the Inspection would fix the Internal to External Addressing of the Call Traffic.

Hmmm...

 

[DennyHeack]

In a Cisco Router the command:
"no ip nat service sip udp port 5060"
can fix certain problems.

Tomorrow I'll check the config of our 5520 for you.

Have you tried disabling (temporarily) your access-list?

 

[DennyHeack]

You're right on SIP inspection.
It's a mechanism similar to STUN.

 

[amriddle01]

But most advice is based on experience, i.e with it on SIP trunks will not work, with it off they do so the advice is to turn it off. This varies from router to router but all I have used it has to be "off" for best results



"No problem monkey socks