Avaya IPO with Norstar Phones - Tips? 11

[SHS1977]

I am fairly new with IPO and will be working with my technicians to deploy a 500v2 Release 8.1 IP Office with VM PRO soon. The customer has 80 Norstar digital telephones (M7324, M7310, T7316, M7208, T7406) that will come over to the new system along with 15 new softphones, 24 new Avaya digital sets and 8 Avaya IP phones. We are moving to a 4-digit dialing plan and eventually will connect this site to a BCM450 in another town via a Metro Ethernet connection so we will be in IP Office Mode. The customer is a 24X7 operation so minimal down time is a must.

With this said, I am looking for tips and cautions beyond what is in the knowledge base as it relates to working with designing templates for the Norstar phones, things to watch out for, issues that other have encountered such as needing to have the Global release of telephone (where the contrast setting goes clear to 9), etc. I will be flying to meet with the customer soon to go over their database requests and want to be sure I do not offer features/functionality that will not work well for the end user.

Any input from those who have been through this already is greatly appreciated.

 

[tlpeter]

Ditxh the Nortel phones as soon as you can.
They will have less functionality then before.


BAZINGA!

I'm not insane, my mother had me tested!

 

[Westi]

tell the customer that keeping the Nortel phones will save money today but will require additional funds in the near future. 24/7 operations should go for Avaya phones for sure (CM platform would be even better) as the Nortel phones that I have out there are still very temperamental and in one site every time I make a programming change to one of the Nortel phones a whole bunch of them lose the programming and come back with default buttons even though the correct code is in to override. Only fix is a reboot and that is quite annoying to me and the customer. In a 24/7 operation that is a disaster if you ask me and the customer will rip out the entire system and go for a Cisco solution (or something else) soon and THEN spend the money on new phones and all the bells and whistles they could have gotten cheaper from you in the first place.

Sorry about being crabby today but that is my 2c


Joe W.

FHandw, ACSS

http://convergednetworks.ca

 

[DigitelD]

Coming from a Nortel shop, I do agree with those above. However, Avaya certainly promised that they could use the Nortel phones and we assumed that they would have "normal" functionality. They do not completely operate like they used to. You mainly have issues when the system has POTS lines and you want the lines to appear on the phones. Call Park is also an issue. Park on Nortel was simple and fit most needs, however, on the IPO you have more than one way to do it. You just need to study it, test it, and find the way that will work best for your customer. Every IPO that I have installed with Nortel phones I find disappointment with the customer on functionality. With the old phones they expect them to work the same no matter how many times you tell them. With new phones comes new expectations. We now try to push the customer to get Avaya phones. What would be great is if Avaya had a module that allowed for either/or. That way they could replace the Nortel phones with Avaya phones as they go without having to get a separate module. Just what I think.

SHK Certified (School of Hard Knocks)
NCSS, ATSP/IP

 

[amriddle01]

That module was proposed and detailed in the R8 beta trials but was quickly removed along with any evidence they even suggested it, basically they couldn't make it work

 

[norstarboy125]

You would be way better off connecting the 450 to a E-Metrotel system, if you haven't heard of one yet then look into it. This system operates the full line of Nortel digital and IP sets flawlessly. The Norstar features are stll the same along with a bunch more that they came up with. I'm not trying to down talk the IPO but if you trying to use a system to run Nortel phones with alot less issues then the E-Metrotel is the way to go.

Jeremy J. Carter
Charm City Communications

http://www.charmcitycommunications.com

Norstar. BCM. CS1000 Programmer

 

[mdust]

We are moving from Nortel systems to Avaya IPO and tried re-using the T7316e phones, but have had problems. Our company likes to use line appearance for POTS lines and when we mixed an Avaya IPO with Nortel 7316e phones, it didn't work. We had to use call parking and now users hate the system because it doesn't working like the BCM did. The tech that installed the system for us told me we can't mix IPO, 7316e's, and line appearance.

If anyone know how to use line appearance on an IPO that has 7316e phones, please let me know!

 

[tlpeter]

Give them a real phone and educate the users that they are in the 21st century.
They are stuck because your company doe snot explain them the right new way.
When you use line appearances then better not sell them an more advanced system that can do a lot more then line appearances.


BAZINGA!

I'm not insane, my mother had me tested!

 

[Greybeard191]

Reusing Nortel sets is pure Avaya marketing drivel, as far as I'm concerned.

Problems so far:
1) can't use Visual voice
2) need multiple VM box logins, or multiple VM Box buttons to retrieve VM from HG mailboxes (easy with Visual Voice, pain in the posterior with Nortel set)
3) glitchey programming issues (see post a few up)... I wish to heck i could figure out wxactly what i was doing that caused this, but man does it cause grief. And a reboot is the ONLY way out.
4) loss of some Nortel functionality... the phones do maybe 80% of what they used to. Some feature codes don't work, call park behaviour is changed, etc. This is actually a huge issue as the user is staring at the same phone they've always had, cursing because it doesn't "work". Huge detractor from the "user experience".
5) Displays on Nortel phones are smaller, and in the case of some types of transfers (e.g. external supervised transfer), the user name of the person who transfers the call is often partially or largely chopped off on the display.
6) large list of funtionality missing (there is an IPO/Nortel BC<M feture matrix available from Avaya... warning, it's not pretty).

Add to this the fact that TCM-8 cards will never support Avaya sets, and the stated firmware upgrades to permit Avyaya set support on the Ds-16A/30A modules have never materialized, and there's certain/additional potential hardware "throwaway" costs involved as well.


At my cynical best, the only thing I can say, is that the Nortel sets are currently functioning better than the 95XX sets are....

GB

 

[tlpeter]

The 9508 work fine but you must be on 8.0.4x (i use 8.0.42 a lot) and on 8.1.43 (no issues yet)


BAZINGA!

I'm not insane, my mother had me tested!

 

[Westi]

greybeard has hit it dead on
Avaya marketing has done this. They seem to be the root of all evil as they dictate when a new release comes out and what it can or cannot do. They tell the developers what to make work and pressure them into a time schedule that cannot be kept and then there are the delays in releases because they find holes so big that even they cannot warrant to release it. They fix the biggest problems and release it so that the testing is on customers and our backs.
I agree that keeping your phones will save you money, but if you have the choice between keeping your money and keeping your sanity, I would go for the latter one any time of the day.

Joe W.

FHandw, ACSS

http://convergednetworks.ca

 

[tlpeter]

I agree on that Westi.
They spend 2 or 3 releases to get the phones supported.


BAZINGA!

I'm not insane, my mother had me tested!

 

[amriddle01]

I think it was part of the deal with Nortel that they had to do it, so they did the minimum required so satisfy that requirement and no more

 

[Greybeard191]

we're using 9508's on 8.0.44, and it's not pretty. The phones freeze, lockup, and the AGC is crap and needs to be turned off.

Customer's are NOT happy.

GB

 

[kp201]

we are also planning to upgrade our Nortel system to IP office 8.1 with Nortel phones (7310, 7208,7316) and eventually replace them with 9610g IP sets. we have small call center and using only basic features. But looks like call parking is going to be huge issue. We are thinking of creating 3 parking zones and program a button for the each zones. But this will take up to 3 button on each phone, Is anyone implemented a solution close to Nortel's ? We hardly have more than 2 calls parked at the same time.

 

[tlpeter]

Greybeard, try 8.0.42 and if that sucks too then raise a case.
There is a patch for 7.0 and 8.0 too.
here you can find it for 8.0

ftp://ftp.avaya.com/incoming/Up1cku9/AvayaT4APP/95xx_DCP/9508_Fix/IPO_8.1.43_3001/R44/10.1(433001).zip



BAZINGA!

I'm not insane, my mother had me tested!

 

[biv343]

I've had good luck with the Nortel branded sets, but only when the customer are basic users and they know what to expect. And by basic I mean they answer the phone, make calls, transfer and check voicemail and maybe conference here and there. We bring the customers into our office or bring a system to them and let them try things out so they can make the decision themselves. It's about 50/50 as to whether the user elects to keep their old phones. We've probably sold more Avaya sets than we have "saved" Nortel sets.

One customer kept a lot of old M series Nortel phones and replaced executive and management phones with 9608s. It didn't take long before others saw those phones and they started replacing more of the Nortel sets. Visual Voice was a huge reason for that. But they knew that going into it.

There is one thing I like about the old Nortel phones - no firmware upgrades on the sets. After waiting for digital sets to download after an upgrade, and hoping they all finish, I find myself at times wishing for Nortel sets to be hanging off the darn system.

 

[SHS1977]

Thank you all for your posts. This is deal that was inked by sales and is already on its way so my job now is to see what I can do to make the best of the situation. I had really hoped to see a more positive response to the blended system but I must confess that I am not surprised. Greybeard191 - Thank you for your concise list especially the point about the user experience as I will have to start right now setting a different user expectation. biv343 I really like the idea of being able to show the customer the Norstar phones on the IPO. We are about to order a demo system and will take this into consideration in the final config. Again, thanks to everyone for taking the time to post.

kp201 - You may want to post your question and start a thread. I have limited experience but the few customers I have brought over from Norstars to IPO really like having the call park on a button. Managing the park with a feature code was cumbersome when we tested on a customer's system before deployment while the park button was just "Push to park, push to pick up". You do not need to have the same park buttons for all groups either so if you have a small group that only parks for each other, they can have their own park button - say Park 3 and everyone else can share Park 1 & 2. I'm sure the more experienced techs will have other suggestions and ideas. At this point, considering the responses here, going for Avaya phones on the IPO seems like a really good idea!

 

[norstarboy125]

SHS1977, You should of took a look at that E-Metrotel system that I told you about unless your already aware of them. The system runs all the Nortel sets IP and digital along with other SIP phones. Especially if you are connecting the new system to a BCM 450 it would of worked liked you were tying 2 BCM'S together. The system has it down to even the feature codes being the same, you can't beat that. No offense to Avaya but Nortel digital phones work 80% at best behind a IPO and IP sets work even worse. It's all up to you buddy I'm just giving you my two cents.

Jeremy J. Carter
Charm City Communications

http://www.charmcitycommunications.com

Norstar. BCM. CS1000 Programmer

 

[GordonKapesMZ4]

I agree with the E-Metrotel solution in this case. Avaya does make a great IPO system though.

Joe

Joseph Sus-Nortel Installer/Programmer

http://www.linkedin.com/pub/joe-sus/12/1a7/856