I'm pondering whether or not I should get certified. I'm a jack of all trades with skills in programming, tech support, networking, and databases and have almost 6 years of experience with a BS degree in Info Systems. I thought about going through the certifications process and getting the A+, MCSE, and MCDBA. This would take an entire year and cost around $2000 for training materials and tests (employer will not pay). Is it worth the time and money investment? Why not just study the books, go through the material you're not familiar with (skipping stuff you'll never use), and forget about taking the tests? Wouldn't the time would be better spent working on side jobs and/or getting another degree/learning another skill to fall back on?
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Are certifications worth the trouble? 1
- Thread starter drago762
- Start date
You should find relevant data about certifications (i.e., salary, raises, jobs) and come to your own conclusions. All you will get from people here are their opinions. Those with them for the most part will say they are "great" and worthwhile in attaining, while those without for the most part will not see the benefit.
To me they are vendor-sponsored, revenue-generators. I fail to see how they can add benefit when cram-exams and other methods are taken to assure the exam is passed. I also know of an individual who had never worked on an IBM SP2 complex before (never even laid a finger on it) and successfully passed the IBM SP Admin exam to become certified. What value is added from his "certificate?"
I also see people who string 6, 8, 10 or more of those acronyms behind their names. Almost without a doubt, even though I have been in IT for 10 years, I don't know what most of the acronyms mean. Some keep getting those because they believe them to be impressive. They also need to be "renewed," read pay more money, when a new version is released.
This topic has been beat to death in this forum and you would be advised by my aforementioned comment to come to your own conclusions.
To me they are vendor-sponsored, revenue-generators. I fail to see how they can add benefit when cram-exams and other methods are taken to assure the exam is passed. I also know of an individual who had never worked on an IBM SP2 complex before (never even laid a finger on it) and successfully passed the IBM SP Admin exam to become certified. What value is added from his "certificate?"
I also see people who string 6, 8, 10 or more of those acronyms behind their names. Almost without a doubt, even though I have been in IT for 10 years, I don't know what most of the acronyms mean. Some keep getting those because they believe them to be impressive. They also need to be "renewed," read pay more money, when a new version is released.
This topic has been beat to death in this forum and you would be advised by my aforementioned comment to come to your own conclusions.
MasterRacker
New member
You may be qualified to do a job, but have difficulty convincing a potential employer that you are. There are many employers who won't even look at a resume that doesn't have some alphabet soup on it. That's the "value-add" of a cert.
That being said, I agree with kHz about the revenue generator point. It's especially annoying to see certs expire. I have no problem with MS saying an MCSE in NT4 cannot claim to be certified in Win2K - however removing the MCSE altogether is ridiculous. Your NT4 knowledge is not going to evaporate just because the a certain date has passed or the product is discontinued.
You need to decide when you think you might be looking for work. I know from personal experience that that it was that much harder to get interviews without a string of letters on the resume.
Jeff
The future is already here - it's just not widely distributed yet...
That being said, I agree with kHz about the revenue generator point. It's especially annoying to see certs expire. I have no problem with MS saying an MCSE in NT4 cannot claim to be certified in Win2K - however removing the MCSE altogether is ridiculous. Your NT4 knowledge is not going to evaporate just because the a certain date has passed or the product is discontinued.
You need to decide when you think you might be looking for work. I know from personal experience that that it was that much harder to get interviews without a string of letters on the resume.
Jeff
The future is already here - it's just not widely distributed yet...
If I were you, I would take a look at where I want to be 5 years from now. If you already have a goal in mind, research it.
Look at jobs that are posted that you are interested in and see if they require certifications or just equivalent experience.
Look at jobs that are posted that you are interested in and see if they require certifications or just equivalent experience.
langleymass
MIS
I completed my MCSE back in early 2000. It was worthless in the job market. I got my A+ in late 1997. It was also worthless, and this was during the so-called boom.
Your best bet is to talk to people who have the certification. I am considering a CISSP because it does appear to have some respect.
Your best bet is to talk to people who have the certification. I am considering a CISSP because it does appear to have some respect.
mrdenny
Programmer
- May 27, 2002
- 11,595
Many people still see the Microsoft Certs are useless. The reason behind this is that many years ago the certs were very easy to get. There were literly 12 year olds going out and getting there MCSEs.
In the last couple of versions of MCSE they have made the tests much harder, and having the certs actually mean something.
I'm hoping that over the next couple of years with the next version of Windows comming up soon(ish) the MCSE and the rest of the Microsoft Certs will have a little more meaning to hiring managers.
Just don't plan on certs being a replacement for experience. That probably won't ever happen, and it shouldn't.
Denny
--Anything is possible. All it takes is a little research. (Me)
![[noevil]](/data/assets/smilies/noevil.gif "[noevil] [noevil]")
(My very old site)
In the last couple of versions of MCSE they have made the tests much harder, and having the certs actually mean something.
I'm hoping that over the next couple of years with the next version of Windows comming up soon(ish) the MCSE and the rest of the Microsoft Certs will have a little more meaning to hiring managers.
Just don't plan on certs being a replacement for experience. That probably won't ever happen, and it shouldn't.
Denny
--Anything is possible. All it takes is a little research. (Me)
(My very old site)
langleymass
MIS
Nobody has ever said that certs should be a substitute for experience. But how does one get more experience? Do you buy it from a Sears catalog or at Walmart?
You get experience by convincing someone to give you that experience. How do you do that?
I have seven years of experience in this profession. Just yesterday, I was talking to someone about my experience. I told her that I didn't have much experience with Office 2000, but I did have years of experience with both Office XP and Office 97. This didn't satisfy her--it had to be "Office 2000 experience."
You get experience by convincing someone to give you that experience. How do you do that?
I have seven years of experience in this profession. Just yesterday, I was talking to someone about my experience. I told her that I didn't have much experience with Office 2000, but I did have years of experience with both Office XP and Office 97. This didn't satisfy her--it had to be "Office 2000 experience."
langleymass, I ran into that same scenario. I applied for a job as a Unix admin (Linux) and they asked if I had any Linux experience. My reply was that I have 10 years of AIX working on large enterprise, mission-critical systems for a Fortune 350 company, and a couple of years on Solaris working for a federal government contractor.
That too, didn't satisfy them. "You don't have any Linux experience, then?"
I wouldn't work for someone who uses that logic anyway. It turned out they didn't want to pay my requirement, too. Guess they can get the home-user-Linux-hobbyist to work their servers. I'll stick with the mission-critical, large enterprise servers; where 1 hour of downtime can cost the company $1 million-plus! I know they will pay me for my skill.
That too, didn't satisfy them. "You don't have any Linux experience, then?"
I wouldn't work for someone who uses that logic anyway. It turned out they didn't want to pay my requirement, too. Guess they can get the home-user-Linux-hobbyist to work their servers. I'll stick with the mission-critical, large enterprise servers; where 1 hour of downtime can cost the company $1 million-plus! I know they will pay me for my skill.
langleymass
MIS
kHz,
It also sometimes comes up--what Linux distribution do you have experience with?
Linux is Linux.
It also sometimes comes up--what Linux distribution do you have experience with?
Linux is Linux.
I agree with much of the above. Having a certification in a particular field relative to your position is helpful when trying to get your foot in the door at an interview. But many employers expect certs to come through experience, not as a means of beginning a new career path.
So in other words, unless you are applying for entry-level positions, likely it won't make much difference in the hiring process. In your case, getting the MCDBA is a good option and may improve your starting pay, but with several years of experience in that field already, I would focus more on the way you define your skills in your resume.
For every case, benefits will vary. In other fields where applications/processes change frequently, some employers like to see that you are capable of passing a cert. So having one is a plus even if it's outdated. That's mainly because they will pay extra to have you stay current once you're hired. But again, take any advice you get lightly with a grain of salt. You have to sift through it and decide what applies the most to your situation.
~cdogg
[tab]"All paid jobs absorb and degrade the mind";
[tab][tab]- Aristotle
[tab][navy]For general rules and guidelines to get better answers, click here:[/navy] faq219-2884
So in other words, unless you are applying for entry-level positions, likely it won't make much difference in the hiring process. In your case, getting the MCDBA is a good option and may improve your starting pay, but with several years of experience in that field already, I would focus more on the way you define your skills in your resume.
For every case, benefits will vary. In other fields where applications/processes change frequently, some employers like to see that you are capable of passing a cert. So having one is a plus even if it's outdated. That's mainly because they will pay extra to have you stay current once you're hired. But again, take any advice you get lightly with a grain of salt. You have to sift through it and decide what applies the most to your situation.
~cdogg
[tab]"All paid jobs absorb and degrade the mind";
[tab][tab]- Aristotle
[tab][navy]For general rules and guidelines to get better answers, click here:[/navy] faq219-2884
Companies will reimburse you for the cost of attaining a certificate would be more accurate for the companies I have worked for. At my former Fortune 350 company they would reimburse you if you PASSED, and that is the same with my current employer. If you fail, which I saw happen at both companies, you are out the money; suck it up, better luck next time. Even if they (the company) say you need to get it. That I don't agree with.
kHz,
Very true. Almost all smaller companies (and even some larger ones as in your case) will not pay up front and only reimburse you if you pass. Furthermore, some will only reimburse a percentage.
At a Fortune 500 company I was previously employed at, they actually had program training "on-site" and payed up front for you to take the exams off-site. But I'm sure that is a rare exception.
~cdogg
[tab]"All paid jobs absorb and degrade the mind";
[tab][tab]- Aristotle
[tab][navy]For general rules and guidelines to get better answers, click here:[/navy] faq219-2884
Very true. Almost all smaller companies (and even some larger ones as in your case) will not pay up front and only reimburse you if you pass. Furthermore, some will only reimburse a percentage.
At a Fortune 500 company I was previously employed at, they actually had program training "on-site" and payed up front for you to take the exams off-site. But I'm sure that is a rare exception.
~cdogg
[tab]"All paid jobs absorb and degrade the mind";
[tab][tab]- Aristotle
[tab][navy]For general rules and guidelines to get better answers, click here:[/navy] faq219-2884
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1
- #13
The sad thing is that many employers use the certs as a reference point because the people that are hiring the IT person have absoluetly no IT experience at all. A few months ago we hired someone with an MIS degree, MCSE, and A+ certification. I had to teach him how to add a user to a group on a 2000 domain. He was given the task to add two DSL connections using an ip range that had been subnetted and had NO IDEA WHY THE MASK WAS NOT 255.255.255.0. I have been in IT for 15 years and have no certifications whatsoever, but when we have a POS machine go down I have to remind our A+ person what voltages to look for (and on which pins) on a serial port! It's like he forget everything he ever learned! So yeah, sure get the certification to help you land a job. But more importantly, NEVER STOP LEARNING. Stand proud.
vstewart7206
MIS
Do you honestly know of anyone who landed their first job or a better job later on because of a certification?
langleymass
MIS
Well, I know one person who got several jobs like this back in 1998. But the jobs didn't last longer than five weeks.
Yup, sure do know someone like that. We hired him. And here was the hiring process: Put out an ad. Receive 400 trillion resumes. Preliminary sorting out of who is qualified: Scan quickly through the resume, look for certifications and/or letters after the name. Throw out any that don't look good in the first scan. Scan through again. Throw out any messy resume or any with typos (I don't disagree with this. If you can't take the time to make your RESUME correct, you're lazy.) Blah blah blah. Funny thing is that we were hiring for an entry level IT position, and there were NO certifications required. Gotta love bureaucracy.
Ladies & Gentlemen,
I know I’m catching this string late in the game but I also have a few concerns.
I've been in the military 16yrs working on electrical, electronic, & mechanical systems and have finally began planning my retirement. I decided a year ago to go back to school to pursue a degree in the MIS field in preparation for a new career in the middle of 2008. I realized from the onset that pursing a career in this field would mean continually keeping up with market trends and the possibility of life long traditional education. This evening, after reading some post, I have to say I am more than a little nervous. My apprehension comes from the realization that after graduation I'm afraid I'll have little to no practical experience outside the classroom. Naturally I've ripped apart my stand-alone system at home, and put together home wireless networks, but somehow I fear these tasks will not prepare me for managing Knowledge Systems or even adding a user account on a server.
I realize that graduates must be frustrating and of little use in this state. How can I best use my free time at home to improve my skills in the areas that would make me a valuable asset upon start my first day at work? Do I need to setup a server at home to get the experience? Do I need to find a company running an ES system and someone willing to take me thru the ropes?
I know I’m catching this string late in the game but I also have a few concerns.
I've been in the military 16yrs working on electrical, electronic, & mechanical systems and have finally began planning my retirement. I decided a year ago to go back to school to pursue a degree in the MIS field in preparation for a new career in the middle of 2008. I realized from the onset that pursing a career in this field would mean continually keeping up with market trends and the possibility of life long traditional education. This evening, after reading some post, I have to say I am more than a little nervous. My apprehension comes from the realization that after graduation I'm afraid I'll have little to no practical experience outside the classroom. Naturally I've ripped apart my stand-alone system at home, and put together home wireless networks, but somehow I fear these tasks will not prepare me for managing Knowledge Systems or even adding a user account on a server.
I realize that graduates must be frustrating and of little use in this state. How can I best use my free time at home to improve my skills in the areas that would make me a valuable asset upon start my first day at work? Do I need to setup a server at home to get the experience? Do I need to find a company running an ES system and someone willing to take me thru the ropes?
mrdenny
Programmer
- May 27, 2002
- 11,595
Start with setting up a windows domain at home. Hit a comptuer show, fle market, swap meet, etc and pick up a few inexpensive pcs. They won't be fast, but you can at least get you feet wet with adding users to the domain, setting up and managing network shares, groups, OUs, sites, trusts, etc.
Find the local Windows users group. Make some contacts, some of them may have some grunt work that needs to be done, that can get your some valuable experience.
Denny
--Anything is possible. All it takes is a little research. (Me)
(My very old site)
Find the local Windows users group. Make some contacts, some of them may have some grunt work that needs to be done, that can get your some valuable experience.
Denny
--Anything is possible. All it takes is a little research. (Me)
(My very old site)
jaymaechtlen
Technical User
pangburn-
Given your experience, you sound like a good all-arounder for some kind of industrial or machine tool service/support situation.
Add basic networking/IT to it, and...
Maybe you shouldn't be competing with network newbies!
Jay
Given your experience, you sound like a good all-arounder for some kind of industrial or machine tool service/support situation.
Add basic networking/IT to it, and...
Maybe you shouldn't be competing with network newbies!
Jay
then again an MCSE that doesn't know how to add a user to a group.... something is definitely wrong there!!
I know that the combination of native english speaker and MCP MCSA Windows 2000 convinced my actual employer when i was interviewed. (working in france..)
and my last employer, the IT guy in charge (we were 2) had passed 2000 server & sql7, but was limited in what he knew, but he had the technical chat down to a T and baffled everyone in charge into believing he knew his stuff...
Aftertaf (david)
MCSA 2003
I know that the combination of native english speaker and MCP MCSA Windows 2000 convinced my actual employer when i was interviewed. (working in france..)
and my last employer, the IT guy in charge (we were 2) had passed 2000 server & sql7, but was limited in what he knew, but he had the technical chat down to a T and baffled everyone in charge into believing he knew his stuff...
Aftertaf (david)
MCSA 2003
- Status
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