Anyone else regularly using FPD v2.6?

[BobDavis]

I'm just curious if there is anyone left in the known universe still actively using FPD 2.6. After 30 years using DBase II, Foxbase, and FPD 2.0, 2.5, and 2.6 mostly to keep business records I still work with it on a daily basis. I keep track of my movie collection, orders, beer and wine info, car maintenance, medical, financial, and several other topics. It runs on a Win10 Pro x86 computer dedicated to FP with two spare computers running Win7 Pro x86 to take up the chores should the current machine fail. It is accessed through my main box running Win10 Pro x64 via Remote Desktop and it all works flawlessly. It is as much a practical effort as it is a challenge, as I'm always making changes--often waking in the middle of the night saying "I wonder if I can make it do this...." I am frequently amazed at what can be done with a program that's so old.

I have a copy of VFP9 but have never installed it, mostly because I don't really need to at this time and I think re-coding my old code would be a daunting task with all the older code that's accumulated over the years. I'm also not excited about learning a new language to run VFP most efficiently. Is there anyone else who still hangs onto the old way?

 

[Steve Meyerson]

Hi Bob.

If you're talkin' 'bout "Old-Dog-New-Tricks", I'm right there with you. I have apps running on FPD 2.6, however, I have upgraded to VFP9. It's not real simple no matter what they might say.

So if I were you and everything's running ok, why spend the time fixing what ain't broke? Watch Netflix instead. (at least during Covid).

Good luck!

Steve

BTW, there have been posts here by people looking for legal copies of VFP9. You might hear from them.

 

[Chris Miller]

You might hear from them.

That sounds like a threat. I think you mean there are several who also still haven't upgraded. Not sure they're all at the 2.6 level. There surely is paradigm change. But the difference is not as big as desktop vs web or app.

I think it won't pay if you want to stay with your screens. VFP runs them, but doesn't offer the screen designer/editor you're used to and genscreen. So if these are your major tools you switch to something very different that only shares the programming language. Or you'd still rather use the FPD IDD and then you can surely also stay with it. I'm not saying anything against that.

Chriss

 

[Mike Lewis]

Bob,

Your circumstances are probably a bit different from that of most of us in this forum. From what you said in your post, it looks like all the work that you have developed has been for your own use. On that basis alone - and given that you seem to be perfectly happy with 2.6 - I don't think anyone can give you a bad time for not moving to the visual word.

I got into Visual Foxpro back in June 1995. And I've never regretted it. Since then, it's provided me with a steady flow of training, writing and software development work for over 20 years. I've been able to create applications that I am really proud of, which I would never have been able to do in FPD or FPW. I'm sure I'm not the only one in that situation.

But I have to say that moving from 2.5 even to 3.0 was no small effort. It took me the best part of a year before I really felt on top of object orientation and event-driven processing. And even now there are large chunks of VFP which I have never understood and probably never will.

If you did decide to learn VFP, I think you will find it rewarding and enjoyable. But if you haven't got a pressing need to do so, I wouldn't blame you for staying where you are.

Mike

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Mike Lewis (Edinburgh, Scotland)

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[Steve Meyerson]

That sounds like a threat.
Of course not (in case you weren't joking). I do recall (I can't specify) more than one poster asking how or where they could get a (legal?) copy of VFP9. That's all I meant.

Steve

 

[BobDavis]

I wasn't expecting such a robust response and I appreciate all the replies. My mindset has been has most of you pointed out, that if it ain't broke don't fix it, and it doesn't need to be fixed. I should've mentioned, although it was apparently implied, that all the programming I do now is for personal use. Back in the mid-90s I had a copy of FPD Runtime (2.0 IIRC) and did a smattering of work for others, but none in the past 25 years. Here's my setup with the x86 machine on the right monitor via Remote Desktop. FWIW, the left monitor is a TV.

It all works like a charm but what brought me to reconsider was the realization that x86 OSs are dying, as Win11 has no 32-bit version. So, what I have or can acquire on the used market in the future is what I'll be stuck with. I have two x86 spare machines (Win7 Pro) with FP currently running on a Win10 machine.

Holding onto vintage isn't limited to software here. The keyboard is a Northgate Omnikey Ultra from about the same time frame as FPD v2.6. I like the clicky switches and have three Northgates, one IBM Model M, and some parts keyboards with Alps keys for replacing the keys that fail.

 

[Chris Miller]

There are no 32bit CPUs anymore, but they still all have 32 bit modes, and so does Widows for 32bit software. There's still Program Files (x86) and SysWow64 (short for SystemWindows32OnWindows64).

So if you have a problem with FPD on Win11 it's likely the same reason since Win7, I think, you also need something like vDOS to run it. But you don't need an older Windows that still supports it and connect to that via Remote Desktop. Another solution is a VM that could actually emulate an older CPU and other legacy hardware and install MSDOS on it, even the original MSDOS, if you like. What's the host system will not matter in such a virtualization scenario.

Chriss

 

[Mike Lewis]

Impressive setup, Bob. (But where do you put your coffee <g>?)

I also have an old clicky keyboard (mine was from Unicomp, with "buckling spring" keys). I live in fear of them going off the market and of mine failing, so I recently bought a spare. It's virtually impossible to get keyboards with a US layout here, so I had to import it from the States at great expense.

Mike



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Mike Lewis (Edinburgh, Scotland)

Visual FoxPro articles, tips and downloads

 

[BobDavis]

There are no 32bit CPUs anymore, but they still all have 32 bit modes, and so does Widows for 32bit software. There's still Program Files (x86) and SysWow64 (short for SystemWindows32OnWindows64).

All my CPUs have been 64-bit for the past three builds (13 years), including the machines running Windows x86. The important thing is the OS, as Windows x64 will not natively run 16-bit apps, although I haven't looked into vDOS or similar for running on x64. I am also not familiar with SysWow64 but will study it.

Impressive setup, Bob. (But where do you put your coffee <g>?)

Just to the left of the keyboard (bottom left corner) is a coaster. Not shown in the pic are three super-tower cases below the console, and the items shown are all on a large VariDesk.

 

[Chris Miller]

I just say NTVDM.

If you're about your legacy programs you should look into ways of getting them to run on a current OS, it's not impossible.

Chriss

 

[Chris Miller]

I am also not familiar with SysWow64 but will study it.

Really? Even VFP9 wouldn't run without 32bit support. But I see you depend on 16bit support, that's available even under newer Windows x64 versions if the NTVDM component is installed. It's a component that's not installed/activated by default but still exists. And if Windows 11 really drops NTVDM, too, you still have the option to use a VM of Windows 10 or lower and activate NTVDM on it. More known is XP mode, which is based on an XP VM and as already said it's not hard to have a VM that emulates old hardware. Today the emulation of this would even be better than original hardware. (Mainly thinking of CPU speed, of course keyboards don't fall into that category and a virtual COM port also doesn't enable you to connect a legacy printer)

As Win11 is new, there might be a phase things like vDOS need to be adjusted to work on it, but you don't need hardware that can run a Windows x86 version to run 16 bit software, a more modern host can always emulate something older, no matter if you use HyperV (Microsoft), VMware, VirtualBox, or something more exotic like Vagrant, which you get to know if you want to use PHP Laravel on Windows.

There's also the Linux platform and more precisely Wine. It's always behind, but surely could emulate legacy Windows features needed for 16bit support. Your options are really vast, multiple options that don't depend on old hardware. You can host a virtual machine to run your old software and it's even more easy with the newest hardware. You can have seamless integration, so a windows that shows the VM maximised windo/desktop/screen looks as if it's an application under your Windows Desktop, with support of Drag&Drop and clipboard, for example.

You're missing out a lot of things, if you never cared for VMs.

Chriss

 

[vernpace]

Is there anyone else who still hangs onto the old way?"

Absolutely not. I would not have been able to survive financially over the years and my brain would have turned into mush... I would rather blow my brains out than write another @ SAY, @ GET.

 

[BobDavis]

Chris, thanks for the detailed reply. MS says that NTVDM will not run on Windows x64, so I presume a third party alternative (e.g., vDOS) would be necessary should I want to extend my capabilities in this way. Has anyone here done that and can recommend a program?

Vernpace, I wouldn't want to make a living doing what I've been doing either. Hanging onto it for so long is testimony that it is a hobby and what I consider good brain exercise, something I need at my age. Some of these routines can really tax the brain, especially when they don't run as expected and require re-working and quirk management. I actually look for things to do with it, often just to engage a challenge, but it often gets so time-consuming that doing it for a living might not be a practical arrangement, especially when cosmetics are important.

 

[Chris Miller]

I see, NTVDM is not listed in Windows features you can turn on or off under Windows x64, so you need a VM with Windows x86 for that, and if you go that route you can right away have a MS DOS VM.

Look into VMs, the most general thing to know: In stage 1 you choose what hardware to emulate, i.e. mainly what CPU, you can choose a x86 32bit CPU here. Then once you have a VM you can install whatever OS on it, for example the original MS DOS. VMs are really very easy, nothing to fear. When you specify CPU, RAM and HDD capacity that already constitutes a virtual PC you can then start from the host console of the VM host software (Hyper-V, VirtualBox, VMWare, as said there are more). When you start it you get a Window that will display the start screen of that VM. And you can insert a CD into that computer by inserting it into your real computer and in the VM host software specify this CD should be visible in the virtual CD ROM drive. You can also use an ISO for that. When you then start the VM boots from that CD and that could be an MS DOS iso or CD and sooner as you think you have an MSDOS ready to install FPD 2.x on it. And then you have the best original experience of, likely faster than on your real older hardware, even though it's not that old as it runs Win7.

So no, as already said before, vDOS isn't your only alternative. I'd perhaps try it before going for VM, because it installs on Windows and no VM host software is necessary at first. But my guess it internally it is a VM anyway. And for that reason configuring your own VM you have more control over it, which would be an advantage.

 

[Shadeburst]

I use FPD2.6/VDos/Win10. For some reason I can't get the mouse to work in FPD in the VDos window although I've set mouse on etc. Anyone else?

I use FPD for a specific heavy-duty data-massaging application that was too painful to try to write in VB or Access.

 

[Dan Olsson]

Why don't you run it in VFP? Most programs work with no or very small changes...

 

[mohinder singh]

yes, i am using foxpro 2.6 till date
but now i am going to update with visual foxpro 9 very soon

 

[Mike Lewis]

Mohinder Singh,

If the problem persists in VFP, I suggest you start a new thread for this problem, and give it a title that accurately describes the issue. By tagging it onto someone else's thread, it is less likely to be seen by someone who might be able to help, and also by other people who might have the same issue.

Mike

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Mike Lewis (Edinburgh, Scotland)

Visual FoxPro articles, tips and downloads