Anyone else having trouble finding work? 4

[LARiot]

Hey, I used to find work in LA as an MS-Access programmer with fair ease. Now it seems there are no contracts to be found anywhere. I've had a few calls with no real results.

Anyone else? Any advice? Any leads?

Thanks

-Nima

 

[Welshbird]

Nima - I would also say, download Oracle. For development and / or training purposes I believe it is free. And its a great skill to have.

SantaMufasa and ThargtheSlayer are your friends here - I'd I'll happily join in with lower-level questions too.

Fee

"The cure for anything is salt water – sweat, tears, or the sea." Isak Dinesen

 

[MDXer]

You can never be over prepared or know to much about a technology when going in to an interview or looking for a job related to that technology

Paul
---------------------------------------
Shoot Me! Shoot Me NOW!!!
- Daffy Duck

 

[LARiot]

OK, thanks.

I know Oracle (and for that matter I know SQL Server). What I would like to learn is VB.net OOP. I don't think it'll be that hard. Someone once told me that if I understand how a cookie cutter works, I can understand how OOP works.

I asked for advice on books here

http://tek-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=1498259&page=1

The Wrox books didn't always have good feedback. The Microsoft books did. I can see M$ having a vested interest in making their books really good.

If anyone has advice on VB.net books please reply on that link. Thanks.

-Nima

 

[MDXer]

I traded OOD and C# lessons for MDX lessons with a friend of mine and he has given me a couple books for C# which have been real helpful. I have hem at home and will post them with links to amazon tonight.

Paul
---------------------------------------
Shoot Me! Shoot Me NOW!!!
- Daffy Duck

 

[lespaul]

Someone once told me that if I understand how a cookie cutter works, I can understand how OOP works.

I want to know what kind of OOP that person was talking about! I know how a cookie cutter works, but that didn't help in grasping the details of how to program OOP...getters, setters, methods, attributes, encapsulation, interfaces and implementations....and in Java, let's not forget the listeners!

Yeah, a cookie cutter.....

Leslie

Have you met Hardy Heron?

 

[rjoubert]

I totally agree with you Leslie. Perhaps that person was talking about Design Patterns, not OOP as a whole. I can see how Design Patterns can be likened to a cookie cutter.

 

[LARiot]

It was a C++ class at Santa Monica College in Los Angeles county.

Actually it wasn't the teacher. It was a substitute, I think one of his students. I don't remember if the class got canceled or I just dropped it b/c of the teacher not being there for the first few sessions.

It wasn't an elaborate nor detailed explanation of OOP. Just a basic concept. Makes sense, you create a basic frame and duplicate it elsewhere. Just that you can make changes to that frame and it would be reflect it where you already used it.

-Nima

 

[Thargy]

Er, since Willif mentioned me in despatches, I thought I ought to contribute my three hap'orth to this discussion.

A few years ago, I was looking at being outsourced or taking voluntary severance from a 12 year permie job. Before I went, I had the chance at an outplacement firm, as part of the severance deal.

I used my brain cell hard that day, and lo, t'was weary at the end thereof, but I reached the following conclusions,to wit:-

Oracle is a product that's been around for 30 years, and, since Oracle is a multi-billion dollar corporation, isn't likely to collapse any sooner than Microsoft.
Oracle commands a premium rate, because it's not for the faint-hearted, and you really have to know your stuff. Believe me, attempting to BS in Oracle is a short cut to the exit...
If I have Oracle skills, I'll likely always be able to get some form of employment, even if it's not at the pay grade I want.

I used my severance credits to finish an OCP (Orace Certified Professional) course, and went contracting as an oracle developer.

Several years later, I am a senior oracle DBA, and am currently looking for contracts at a daily rate above £400. There are some in the city, and/or Canary Wharf at £650 per day, but you need banking experience for those.

The big O has stood me in good stead, and since I'm a bit on the geeky side, it suits my character.

My point is, find something that will always pay the rent, that is roughly what you enjoy, and then work your socks off to acquire those skills. Then reap the cash benefits.

Previous posters have mooted the idea of becoming multi-skilled, which appears sound, but it a mistake. You must become excellent at the core skills, and by dint of experience add the others. Trying to study six skills at once means that you will be good an none of them, and will always fluff a technical interview.

Responses via P45 please...

Regards

T

 

[MDXer]

Previous posters have mooted the idea of becoming multi-skilled, which appears sound, but it a mistake. You must become excellent at the core skills, and by dint of experience add the others. Trying to study six skills at once means that you will be good an none of them, and will always fluff a technical interview.

Makes a good point that might be lost on those just starting in an IT career. While I don't think any of us are actually saying learn C#, Oracle, MS SQL Server, ASP.NET all at the same time it may sometimes seem that way giving the the number of skills that members of this forum posses. Many of us here who posses multiple skills and at a high level of competency, we have spent many years getting to that point.

As for myself I have invested close to a decade acquiring my Business Intelligence skills. Data Warehousing, SQL, OLAP, MDX, ETL, Reporting Enterprise Architecture of these systems. None of this was learned in an 8 hour work day, but rather working reading and researching. While it appears I have a large number of skills they all focus around 2 core technologies.

The most important part is as thargtheslayer has stated find something you enjoy because to reach the level that can command a premium salary you will end up investing a lot of time away from your office.

Paul
---------------------------------------
Shoot Me! Shoot Me NOW!!!
- Daffy Duck

 

[kmcferrin]

I think that it really depends on what sort of job you're looking for. If you're a DBA, then you should learn your database application (ie, Oracle, or SQL, or DB2, or whatever platform you use). If you're a developer you'll probably need only one language, maybe two or three if it gets crazy.

If you are a systems engineer or architect, you'll be expected to know server operating systems (probably Microsoft, but also possibly some Linux/AIX/HP-UX/Solaris), networking (DHCP, DNS, etc), some routing/switching, storage technology, security, virtualization, hardware platforms and possibly some of the application layer as well (Exchange, Domino, or whatever). You can certainly choose to focus on one of those areas, but even then you'll need at least some skills in those other areas. If you do go the generalists route, then obviously you'll never know all of those areas as well as someone who focuses on just one of them. But you probably will have an easier time getting up to speed on any of those areas as the need arises.

________________________________________
CompTIA A+, Network+, Server+, Security+
MCSE:Security 2003
MCITP:Enterprise Administrator

 

[JoeAtWork]

The thing that struck me was your description of being a "MS Access Programmer".

The immediate impression this gives me is of someone who styles himself a "programmer" because he can throw a few bound forms together with wizard generated code. I have just seen so many of these cobbled together Access applications, that I have serious doubts about the skills of someone who apparently has never used any other tools.

If I was hiring, I would prefer the candidate who had worked with several toolsets (let's say SQL Server, VB and a little .NET), with only some Access experience, over the person who had done only 100% Access programming. This is true even if the job was specifically for Access development.

The former person has much more likely been educated in design principals such as RDMS and other general programming skills than the latter. I would prefer the general skill over the specific skill (which may be no skill at all but rather a collection of bad habits that Access development tends to encourage).

Unlike Oracle, Access really isn't that big of a system to master. Therefore, I would question the abilities of anyone who's worked for more than a year in the IT industry who's never gone outside the comfort zone of Access development.

I think you are making the right decision in expanding your skillset. On your resume, I would advise not to style yourself as an "Access Programmer", but rather as a "Programmer" who has worked with Access.

Joe Schwarz
Custom Software Developer

http://www.plandev.net

 

[vegas100]

Dice.com and do not click on state click on city and you will see lots and lots of jobs depending on where you live.
Akron, OH (71)
Allendale, NJ (7)
Alpharetta, GA (365)
Annapolis Junction, MD (81)
Arlington Heights, IL (28)
Ashburn, VA (68)
Atlanta, GA (1819)
Baltimore, MD (361)
Beaverton, OR (121)
Billerica, MA (86)
Boston, MA (1411)
Boulder, CO (162)
Chatsworth, CA (29)
Cleveland, OH (708)
Columbus, OH (781)
Dallas, TX (1556)
Denver, CO (693)
Des Moines, IA (172)
Fenton, MO (3)
Houston, TX (1679)
Huntsville, AL (284)
Indianapolis, IN (330)
Irving, TX (416)
Issaquah, WA (55)
Macon, GA (15)
Memphis, TN (212)
Middletown, NJ (122)
Midland, TX (11)
Minneapolis, MN (1072)
Moline, IL (28)
New York, NY (4735)
Newark, NJ (158)
Newport Beach, CA (90)
Norcross, GA (130)
Oldsmar, FL (7)
Phoenix, AZ (734)
Round Rock, TX (81)
Saint Louis, MO (770)
San Diego, CA (1166)
San Francisco, CA (2201)
Santa Clara, CA (585)
Santa Monica, CA (152)
Stamford, CT (329)
State College, PA (13)
Sunnyvale, CA (443)
Syracuse, NY (54)
Tampa, FL (518)
Washington, DC (1866)
Wayne, PA (112)
West Des Moines, IA (74)
as of 6:30 10/15/08

 

[LARiot]

Thanks Vegas, what did you do the search on? Which keywords?

-Nima

 

[DonQuichote]

Someone once told me that if I understand how a cookie cutter works, I can understand how OOP works.

No. But if you can use electrical devices, you can use objects. Electrical devices have a lot in common with objects. They have an inside and an outside, of which you only have to understand the outside if you want to use it. Because only the outside is important, the inside may differ completely for two devices doing the same.

The outside (we call it an interface in OOP) is recognizable: you recognize a power plug, or an audio plug. These plugs have somewhat abstract meanings: PowerConsumer, SoundProducer, etc. These abstractions help flexibility. You can, for instance, unplug the CD player from your amplifier and plug your brand new media centre into it. Being both "SoundProducers", this is possible. Even though the inside (the implementation in OO terms) is completely different.

In effect, OOP is not that much different from the modularization that took place in the electronics industry. Where the electronics industry started with one huge detailed scheme for every device, they now "click components together". These compoments are "objects": with a limited responsibility (just tone control for one channel, for instance) and therefore separately testable. In fact, the electronic industry has a lot of these simple, specialized testbenches for quality assurance. In OOP, we call them unit tests.

Now if you understand modularity and abstraction, you are more than half-way to the understanding of OOP.

+++ Despite being wrong in every important aspect, that is a very good analogy +++
Hex (in Darwin's Watch)

 

[Kjonnnn]

I've been looking 3 years now.

 

[ousoonerjoe]

There is something to be said about being in the field regardless of the level of the position. While I am not fond of them, Geek Squad is a perfect example of this. So you're a certified Net Admin, but you've been out of the field for a couple of years or longer and are trying to get back into the business, but have had ZERO luck. It is much better to be employed in the field than not in many cases (this is by no means an absolute). I was in school getting my Assosc. in programming while working as a computer repair tech (making on $6.25 an hour). Those two skills are what eventually landed me my first job as a programmer, because I had experience and was already working in the field (according to HR anyways). If you are really wanting to get into the field and it's a driving passion of yours (like it is for a lot of us here), then sometimes we have to go back to the 'trenches' to get back to where we would like to be.

"...and did we give up when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? NO!"
"Don't stop him. He's roll'n.

 

[MDXer]

My experience is you have to be willing to go where the work is. I have a few friends that complain about the job market or salaries in their area none are willing to move. I on the otherhand have never taken more than 3 weeks to secure a job and I feel that along with my skills it is because I will go where needed to secure the work. The past 2 years I've moved from Las Vegas, to Shreveport LA to set up a BI development shop and most recently from Shreveport to Atlanta.



Paul
---------------------------------------
Shoot Me! Shoot Me NOW!!!
- Daffy Duck

 

[KornGeek]

MDXer,

Being open to relocation would definitely help, however many of us have other commitments that make relocation difficult if not eliminating it as an option completely.

For instance, if I moved across the country, I would seldom see my children. This would not be in their best interest, and would likely be severely bad for my mental health. Working retail would actually be a better option for me at that point.

 

[MDXer]

Where in the Silver state are you located? I still have contacts in Las Vegas and could point you to them if you are interested.

Paul
---------------------------------------
Shoot Me! Shoot Me NOW!!!
- Daffy Duck

 

[gbaughma]

Your most important skill when looking for a job and starting out on a job is simply knowing how to play the game. It doesn't ever matter if you can do the work. If you know how to scratch your supervisor's back, you will go as far as you want. Schmoozing, manipulating, and sucking up beat talent, hard work, and passion most of the time.

Many people don't like admitting this. However, you have to judge them by what they actually do, not by what they say.

Shoalcreek last logged on in August of 2008.

I certainly hope that he is no longer in the I.T. field. The more of his posts I read, the more irate I get.


Just my 2¢

"What the captain doesn't realize is that we've secretly replaced his Dilithium Crystals with new Folger's Crystals."

--Greg

http://parallel.tzo.com