Anyone else having trouble finding work? 4

[LARiot]

Hey, I used to find work in LA as an MS-Access programmer with fair ease. Now it seems there are no contracts to be found anywhere. I've had a few calls with no real results.

Anyone else? Any advice? Any leads?

Thanks

-Nima

 

[KornGeek]

shoalcreek,

Wow, what caused you to become so jaded? Yes, there are circumstances where people get ahead based off manipulation, but in my personal experience, they don't stay ahead for long without some hard work, talent, and/or passion.

 

[flapeyre]

shoalcreek,

With that attitude, you may indeed have some short-term gains, but if you keep that up, the first wave of layoffs will find you on the other side of the door. Nobody likes a manipulator, except other manipulators, and even they will turn on you eventually.

Nullum gratuitum prandium.
--Sleipinir214

 

[kmcferrin]

While it's true that there are some aspects of career development that are game-like (or at least where a solid knowledge of game theory would be helpful, like in salary negotiations), I think it's very silly to look at your livelihood as a game. Games are played for entertainment and mental exercise. Most of us work so that we can support ourselves or our families. The stakes are much, much higher.

While it's true that "playing games" and trying to manipulate people might give you some short term success, it's not a winning strategy long term. Not only does it tend to alienate people (both your peers and those who have workplace authority over you), but it also reduces your value to the organization. If you spend your time "playing the game," you are not providing/creating value for the company, and that's the equivalent of painting a giant bullseye on your back.

Jaded was exactly the word that I was thinking. Maybe I'm naive and stupid, but I still believe that being a hard worker and developing your professional and technical skills will get you far in your career. Maybe I'm just an anomaly, but it's worked well for me. And my wife. And pretty much all of our friends and immediate family.


________________________________________
CompTIA A+, Network+, Server+, Security+
MCSE:Security 2003
MCITP:Enterprise Administrator

 

[shoalcreek]

With that attitude, you may indeed have some short-term gains, but if you keep that up, the first wave of layoffs will find you on the other side of the door. Nobody likes a manipulator, except other manipulators, and even they will turn on you eventually.

The best manipulators are never discovered. If people know that you are a manipulator, you are already doing it wrong. Nobody ever turns on the most successful manipulators.

 

[flapeyre]

Nobody ever turns on the most successful manipulators.

Except for other manipulators, that is.

You are giving manipulators too much credit. I can spot one a mile away. And, so can most good managers.


Nullum gratuitum prandium.
--Sleipinir214

 

[ousoonerjoe]

Schmoozing, manipulating, and sucking up beat talent, hard work, and passion most of the time.

These are the kinds of people that get the least amount praise in my book. I've managed many that were like the above stated and they all stayed at the bottom. I give more credit to those that admit to mistakes and try to correct them than those that hide their mistakes and blame them on other people. They cause most issues within the department. Respect is earned, not given. You will not get any True respect from those around you (or above you) if you have your lips attached to their back-sides.

"If I were to wake up with my head sewn to the carpet, I wouldn't be more surprised than I am right now.

 

[KornGeek]

The best manipulators are never discovered.

Then how do you know that's how they're getting ahead?

Logic Error: Line 73
Please reboot logic server.

 

[shoalcreek]

Then how do you know that's how they're getting ahead?
Logic Error: Line 73
Please reboot logic server.

Okay, you got me.

But do you honestly think that people like George Bush and Dick Cheney will ever serve any jail time for their manipulative crimes? Did Josef Stalin serve any time for all his murders? Did Mao Tse-tung ever get punished?

Carly got a well-deserved firing from HP and got a nice severance package. She's not the only one.

 

[flapeyre]

But do you honestly think that people like George Bush and Dick Cheney will ever serve any jail time for their manipulative crimes?

Ah, now I see. You think you can get away with manipulation because of your perception that others have done so.

While I'm sure that some have done so, that does not make it right. Besides, have you forgotten about WorldCom Global Crossing, and Enron (just to name a few)? People are in Federal prison now who used to be in corner offices..

Nullum gratuitum prandium.
--Sleipinir214

 

[KornGeek]

Another logic error.

As it has been stated in somebody's signature:
"The plural of anecdote is not data."

Just because something has happened does not mean that such a result is common, likely, or probable. (Notice all the weight loss ads that say "Results not typical".) It is a fallacy to say "These people succeeded through manipulation, thus manipulation succeeds and hardwork fails.

 

[svanels]

The jails are full of "manipulators", the only manipulators that get away are the ones with a lot of money and power, they can buy themselves out of any trouble:
Stalin, Bush, Mao Tse Tung, Dick Cheney and other big calibers.
Shoalcreek, if you start doing like Jozef Stalin I am sure that you will be locked up in an asylum.

Steven

 

[Kjonnnn]

I've been looking for 3 years.

 

[Stella740pl]

3 years?
Looking for a job at all or looking for a better/different job?
Are you currently working? What are you doing now and what do you try to find?
Do you have trouble getting interviews or do you have trouble selling yourself at the interviews?
How exactly are you looking for a job?

 

[KornGeek]

Do you have trouble getting interviews or do you have trouble selling yourself at the interviews?

Mildly off topic, but does anybody else have a strong dislike for the phrase "selling yourself" in terms of job hunting? To me, it sounds a bit too much like standing on the street corner in a short skirt and thigh-high leather boots. (And I really don't have the legs to pull of that look.)

 

[Stella740pl]

Substitute it with any term of your liking, but basically, that's what you are doing. You will prove that you can do the job later - if/when you already got it.

I guess, you don't have a problem with the rest of the questions? Because to me, they seem like valid "troubleshooting" questions to someone looking for a job for 3 years.

 

[KornGeek]

Stella,

I actually thought all of the questions were valid, and I can understand the use of that term, but considering some of its other uses, it feels a bit awkward.

I personally was without stable employment for most of 2 years. During that time, I worked temp jobs and had one job for about 6 months (it was a mutually very bad fit), but I was continually searching for stability. I had trouble getting interviews, and when I did get them, I was often the "2nd choice" where they liked me but found somebody a little more qualified.

I tried placement companies, online job hunting, classifieds, etc. Unfortunately, I have minimal professional contacts in this area, and that seems to be the best route. I eventually got a job through a temp agency, and will be transitioning to a permanent employee soon.

 

[MDXer]

KornGeek where are you located and what is your skill set? After all this a form of proffesional networking happens here, and maybe one of us knows your area.

Paul
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Shoot Me! Shoot Me NOW!!!
- Daffy Duck

 

[LARiot]

OK, thanks for all the feed back folks. So far I've learned here...

George Bush and Dick Cheney know how to code. I should wear a mini skirt for a job interview (I wonder if employers will like my hairy legs). And ousoonerjoe can sleep through his head being sown to the carpet.

Yeah, I've had two interviews since. Not to sound prejudice but a number of calls were from Indian recruiters who have 2-3 people call me (also Indian). Have thick accents. Negotiate a price with me a fair amount lower than my asking price and never call me back. Though two were actually professional and were the only recruiters from their office to call me and have gotten me actual interviews at some point.

First one (no recruiters involved) liked me but ended up hiring someone with a ridiculous amount of Access experience. The pay was $20/hr more than my regular rate and my rate is not low. However I could've gotten through that entire contract without writing a single line of code... and that's no fun.

Second one had an internal recruiter and is an actual consulting company, not a recruiting company posing as a consulting company. Still waiting to hear from them (maybe today) but it didn't go that well. I couldn't answer a few of their questions for which I actually know the answers. I had medium level of technical expertise compared to other candidates. They aren't looking for an Access programmer though, more of an SQL programmer. Oh well. At least they liked my presentation.

Right now, as I type, Visual Basic Express is being downloaded with SQL Server Express on my new AMD dual processor with 2... um almost 2 gb RAM. Got a great deal at

http://www.1saleaday.com.

I should probably get a book. Any recommendations? Also I might need some suggestions on what to code to show as a demo.

Thanks in advance.

-Nima

 

[MDXer]

Are you downloading Express to brush up on SQL server? if so you might be better off investing the $50 in SQL Developer Edition, it has the same functionality as Enterprise.

Paul
---------------------------------------
Shoot Me! Shoot Me NOW!!!
- Daffy Duck

 

[LARiot]

I don't think I'll be interviewing with questions that would apply to the Enterprise edition an not the Express edition.

-Nima