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Age old carrier finger pointing dilemma, MICS 7.0. 1

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Phonehed

Programmer
Apr 25, 2006
452
US
Been going round in circles with Grande Communications over the last month on quality of service issues at a site with construction going on all around.

System ran flawlessly for over three years with this carrier then ever since all the construction started, they've had nothing but trouble including countless, total losses of service.

Naturally they always point the finger at the phone system until they can figure out what's happening so I went round in circles with them for a week or two until they finally fessed up and admitted that either they, or AT&T had issues on their end.

They've been doing all kinds of tests & pair swapping over the last two weeks and they've finally got it cleaned up fairly well now with the exception of one continuous, nagging event code (#327-00, alarm threshold surpassed in the DTI card for detection of controlled slip overflow, 7 times in just the last four hours in fact).

They can't figure it out so naturally, you guessed it, we're right back to square one again and it MUST be the phone system!

LOL!

Now they're trying to say that it has to be a clocking issue on my end. Clock source is set to primary of course (because it's the only one in the system). I haven't made any configuration changes and everything else seems to be ok. Not getting any other alarm or event codes now and I'd be shocked if their was actually something wrong with this, well protected and properly maintained Norstar.

I'm open to suggestions on this but it doesn't seem to matter what I tell them now.

Their next step is to make arrangements to send a tech out with a T-Bird and test it directly from the smart jack, in my presence.

I'm pretty sure I know what he's going to find but I figured I'd bring a spare DTI card and another T-1 services cartridge just in case.

Just thought I'd check in here for any advice or speculation on this one before I go head to head with them.

Thanks in advance!

Phonehed in Dallas
 
they should see receive errors with the tbird.the receive errors are a telco issue. make sure the ti protacol is axactly like yours. don't take their word for it. make them look a the ti settings.

WORK SMART NOT HARD
 
I've had the same issues quite a few times with different providers but mainly with AT&T PRI's. Don't let the "T-Bird" test be the "be all-end all" factor from your provider. I've had them able to do a sucessful loop back test when the ISDN pairs were a half pair off in the "B Box" a block away. This I'm sure is not the problem your having but the T-Bird loop is not foolproof . I use a DBU meter to check for 16dbu +or-4. (DCD) Carrier Detect/ we also use a data bit error rate tester but it's a pricey piece of equip. But in almost all cases, the provider is the problem and the hard part is getting them to admit it. Hang in there and stick to your guns!
 
Update: Well they're still driving us all nuts on this one.

Just wanted to check back in here before I try anything.

The carrier finally got most of the errors cleared up and it no longer seems to be crashing but now they're telling me they see some kind of clocking issue on our side.

The only network event errors I'm seeing now are 326 & 327 (Short term alarm threshold has been surpassed in the DTI cartridge for the detection of Controlled Slip Underflow and Overflow).

The system test log does show a continuous stream of nothing but event 312 & 313 back & forth all day and all night long (312 says the clock server received an unexpected event or invalid FUMP message received by the clock. 313 says The clock server did not receive the clock alarm from the N15 after a time-out period.)

Now they have me wondering if I really do have a problem. I'm thinking I should try replacing the clock card to see if these errors go away but I'm still open to any other suggestions on this one.

Thanks again for all the help!


Phonehed in Dallas
 
And/or the DTI card too!

Replace one at a time.


313: | HUMAN ACTION:
313: | If the log events are happened repetitively, it may
313: | indicate that the hardware fault happens in the KSU
313: | N15 or the DTI. The craft person may wish to replace
313: | the hardware to fix the problem.



=----(((((((((()----=
curlycord
 
I have had the carrier swap out their equipment, well they moved it to a new cabinet within their switch. Took me over a month to convince them of this, but it's only happened twice within 5 years. Be persistent, keep your cool. Replace the DTI card, and if it still happens, ask them to change out their equipment.

--DB

 
We have had a clocking issue here or there but really RARE!!!! Are you useing a "Combo" card? There seem to be less alerts with the combo cards, why I don't know.
 
Thanks again for all the help!

No change in status except that it hasn't crashed in 8 days now.

No combo card in this one.

Carrier still insists it's the phone system so I guess I'm gonna start by replacing the T-1 Services Cartridge next week. If that doesn't have any effect I'll try another DTI card. I just hope I don't have to try replacing the KSU.

Anybody know what the "N15" refers to???

Phonehed in Dallas
 
Uh oh.

Since this was the very first Chinese made Norstar I ever installed, I really have to wonder if I have a problem on my end now. Anybody else ever had any trouble with any of the Chinese manufactured Norstar KSU's?

Phonehed in Dallas
 
Update:

This may be a bit premature to announce but I changed the clock card out at noon today and haven't seen a single alarm or event code yet!

No one is more surprised than I am on this one, particularly with the ongoing construction project nearby still in full swing.

I've only got about 100 Norstar accounts left these days but I can't even remember the last time I saw a T-1 Services cartridge fail.

Kinda makes me wonder if all of the previous carrier issues could have caused such a failure, (anybody???) although I suppose it could also have been a Nortel QC issue. As I mentioned before, this KSU was made in China but the clock card I just replaced was hechoed en Mexico.

Thanks again for all of the input!

Phonehed in Dallas
 
Update 5/24:

I've still got problems here. The clocking errors (Events 312 & 313) went away after I swapped the clock card and it ran flawlessly for a day or so but now I'm getting errored seconds again and loss of frame. Also getting numerous codes that aren't in the book.

Anybody got a copy of the complete list of error & event codes by any chance?

Here's what I found this morning:

System test log shows an alarm 75, alarm 372 and event 310.

Network event log shows alarm 75, event 325, event 330, event 323, and the alarm 372.

I think they're still having trouble on the carrier side but I'm sure they will finger the phone system again.

Guess I could try changing out the DTI card just for grins but I'm still open to suggestions on this one.

Phonehed in Dallas
 
Alarm 75 - ISDN Connection failure from service provider

Event - 310 - Bad stimulus message rcvd by DT1 from KSU
323 - Short term threshold surpassed in the DT1
card
325 - Detection of errored second
*330*- Loss of frame

These events are External time clocking issues and most likely are 'CO' issues they won't fess up to. Try this site, Scribe.com for list of alarm/event codes.
 
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