A word which meant something different being used in its.... 5

[Chance1234]

this caught my eye

I was reading an article on ancient plague when the author used the Line "The plague decimated the roman legions."

Im just wondering if there is a word for that kind of word usage. In the sense that decimation to a roman legion would of meant 1 in 10 men being taken out and executed which evolved to the word decimation we use today. I just found it interesting that the author chose to use that word.



Chance,

Filmmaker, gentleman and polla stilo eleous

 

[Stella740pl]

Santa,

The usage of "moot" is not really diametrically opposite of its true meaning (even though not exactly what it originally meant, either).

Yes, people are saying "That is a moot point", but this usually means, "That is an arguable point; so if we do argue, we may or may not agree on it, so let's not even start." The opposite would be something like "We already agreed on this, so it is no longer an issue."

 

[LNBruno]

Unless they say "That is a MOO point" in which case it means "What do cows have to do with anything?"

< M!ke >
Acupuncture Development: a jab well done.

 

[SantaMufasa]

First, Stella, it's great to see that you are back with us...I was hoping you were okay and had not fallen in a pool of water somewhere.

...people are saying "That is a moot point", but this usually means, That is an arguable point...

I would be delighted if that is what people intended, but from their context, they certainly don't mean "that is an arguable point." In fact, I have actually heard some "illiteruts" say, "that is a mute point," which makes them sound even sillier.

Mufasa
(aka Dave of Sandy, Utah, USA)
[I provide low-cost, remote Database Administration services: www.dasages.com]

 

[kjv1611]

this caught my eye

Sorry to hear that, chance. Was it very painful?

--

"If to err is human, then I must be some kind of human!" -Me

 

[AnotherHiggins]

Again turning to our Merriam-Webster friends:

Main Entry: [sup]3[/sup]moot
Function: adjective
1 a : open to question : DEBATABLE b : subjected to discussion : DISPUTED
2 : deprived of practical significance : made abstract or purely academic

So using moot to mean this is perfectly valid.

[offtopic]

Unless they say "That is a MOO point" in which case it means "What do cows have to do with anything?"

I am reminded of a great Friends moment.

Joey says something is a "moo point".

Someone asks him, "Did you just say, 'moo'"?

To which Joey responds, "Yeah. It's like a cow's opinion. It just doesn't matter. It's moo."

[/offtopic]


[tt]_____
[blue]-John[/blue][/tt]
[tab][red]The plural of anecdote is not data[/red]

Help us help you. Please read FAQ181-2886 before posting.

 

[Chance1234]

for anyone who is interested here is the article i was reading

http://www.loyno.edu/~history/journal/1996-7/Smith.html

Chance,

Filmmaker, gentleman and polla stilo eleous

 

[Stella740pl]

Hi, Santa,

I was hoping you were okay and had not fallen in a pool of water somewhere.

Yes, I am back, and I am OK, and this was definitely not what happened to me.

"that is a mute point"
I've heard those, too. Actually, if you think about it, this one even closer to "that topic is no longer an issue, so let's not say a word about it" meaning ;-).

 

[SantaMufasa]

Main Entry: 3moot
Function: adjective...
2 : deprived of practical significance : made abstract or purely academic

Yes, John, I was aware of the second, less urbane definition. But, I tend to discount it since, that definition wormed its way into the dictionary in the first place by its common, incorrect usage.

And by common, I mean:

common

Main Entry: com·mon
Pronunciation: 'kä-m&n
Function: adjective
Etymology: Middle English commun, from Anglo-French, from Latin communis -- more at MEAN
...
5 a : falling below ordinary standards : SECOND-RATE b : lacking refinement : COARSE

So, yes, it's there in the dictionary; but it's there for all of the wrong reasons.


Mufasa
(aka Dave of Sandy, Utah, USA)
[I provide low-cost, remote Database Administration services: www.dasages.com]

 

[AnotherHiggins]

->that definition wormed its way into the dictionary in the first place by its common, incorrect usage

Is that different than decimate?

I'm not trying to be a jerk - etymology isn't my thing so I don't know.

[tt]_____
[blue]-John[/blue][/tt]
[tab][red]The plural of anecdote is not data[/red]

Help us help you. Please read FAQ181-2886 before posting.

 

[CajunCenturion]

I think 'moot' has its origins in Old English, and it meant "to meet and discuss". That in turn lead to 'moot court' which was a time for law students to come together and discuss various legal issues. However, in moot court, the issues were predominately hypothetical, and it's the hypothetical aspect of those discussion that lead into the connotation of 'moot' not having any practical merit.

--------------
Good Luck
To get the most from your Tek-Tips experience, please read
FAQ181-2886
As a circle of light increases so does the circumference of darkness around it. - Albert Einstein

 

[SantaMufasa]

Is that different than decimate?

Yes, John, I would say that it is different from decimate in that: "to reduce drastically especially in number" is a logical continuation from the original meaning, "to select by lot and kill every tenth man".


Conversely, the "new" usage of moot is virtually in diametric opposition to the "original" (correct) meaning of moot. One could classify the "new" usage as "slang", in much the same way that in some circles, the slang use of "bad" means "good", and "hot" means "cool", et cetera.

Mufasa
(aka Dave of Sandy, Utah, USA)
[I provide low-cost, remote Database Administration services: www.dasages.com]

 

[pinkgecko]

I could care less if the incidences of mute points are decimated



[blue]Never listen to your customers. They were dumb enough to buy your product, so they have no credibility. - Dogbert[/blue]

 

[SantaMufasa]

Geez, Pink, I'll bet your first language was Utahnics.

Mufasa
(aka Dave of Sandy, Utah, USA)
[I provide low-cost, remote Database Administration services: www.dasages.com]

 

[CajunCenturion]

==> ->that definition wormed its way into the dictionary in the first place by its common, incorrect usage
Is that different than decimate?
Yes, I do think it's very different. Firstly, because I don't think that 'moot' is that much different from it's Old English original. Secondly, as from my previous post, I do see a logical progression through the different implications of moot.

On the other hand, I think using decimate to mean a substantial portion is totally wrong, because that's not what the word should mean. The prefix 'dec' hasn't changed.

I'm also not aware of any logical stepwise progression in the change of meaning from one-tenth to substantial, although there may be. From what I have, it seems the change was very sudden, and for no apparent reason. But for whatever reason, the incorrect usage seems to have stuck.

--------------
Good Luck
To get the most from your Tek-Tips experience, please read
FAQ181-2886
As a circle of light increases so does the circumference of darkness around it. - Albert Einstein

 

[Chance1234]

wiki on the subject

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decimation_(Roman_Army)

Chance,

Filmmaker, gentleman and polla stilo eleous

 

[Lunatic]

I think if you asked 100 people, most of them would associate decimation with carnage on a large scale, rather than one in ten being destroyed.

On this point Grenage, I think most military men would disagree with you. The loss of a noticiable number of soldiers has an exponential negative effect of military strength.

A loss of 10% of a general's troops would drastically curtail the options available to him (for example, just to maintain the same perimiter he must use a larger % of his troops meaning he has fewer to do other things, such as prepare defenses or work on logistics).

Reaching 20 or 30% could mean the annihilation of a unit as an effective military unit. At that point the ability of the unit to do the most routine tasks stretches, and that doesn't include the care of causualties, the increased time on duty and other factors.

Even if the plague only killed 10% of the Roman legion, that would still be enough to force the Roman generals to re-evaluate their position and potentially retreat from the field.

Remember that the Roman legion would have lost even more men to caring for the plague-struck men or to tasks such as buriel or cremation, further amplifying any loss of men.

Regardless of how decimate was intended, it was almost certainly used correctly.

***************************************
Have a problem with my spelling or grammar? Please refer all complaints to my English teacher:
Ralphy "Me fail English? That's unpossible." Wiggum

 

[Rofeu]

Moot, probably just short for "to meet and hoot".

 

[Grenage]

Perhaps, but military men are a small percentage of the population; so if you asked 100 people, I still say it's true.

Having asked those in my office, not a single person mentioned 'one in ten' when asked for the meaning of the word.

Carlsberg don't run I.T. departments, but if they did they'd probably be more fun.

 

[pinkgecko]

For a long time, I used "a couple" to mean three or four. My numbering system incremented from single, to few, to couple, to several. I came around though when I realized how stupid I must have sounded...

[blue]Never listen to your customers. They were dumb enough to buy your product, so they have no credibility. - Dogbert[/blue]

 

[Stella740pl]

pinkgecko,

Even if you didn't exactly use "a couple" to mean two, still, shouldn't have your numbering system incremented from single to a couple, then to a few, then to several, then to many? To me, "a couple" sounds to be fewer than "a few"...

In a local bakery, I used to find it irritating when a sales person, after I asked for "a couple of those rolls", always requested more information: "How many?" And even if I explicitly said that I also wanted, say, four cream puffs (sold by weight), I often got five or six. I got used to it, I now always provide some more specific, or even redundant information. I ask for two rolls and for "four, only four puffs", and so on.