Work and family - Is a balance possible? 12

[KornGeek]

As a programmer, I am often expected to work late nights, weekends, etc. As a husband and father, I am expected to be home to tuck the kids in, attend school functions and baseball games, and spend quality time with my family. As a person, I'm expected to eat, sleep, and use the restroom and would like a little bit of time to just relax and do what I want to do.

Unfortunately, there are only 24 hours in a day. Both my boss and my family want more time out of me. I've already sacrificied most of my personal time. Eating is most often done at my desk, and sometimes done in a combination with family/relaxing time. Sleep has been trimmed down to unhealthy levels, and I've given up on personal time. About the only thing left to give up is my restroom time, and that would just get messy.

When both my work and family want about 15 hours a day from me, 7 days a week, how can I find balance? If I spend too much time with one, I run a very real risk of losing the other (especially the job right now). Any suggestions?

 

[flapeyre]

In my opinion, your employer has unrealistic expectations. The boss for all of us programmers where I work is a family man, and an ex-programmer himself, so we are discouraged from working past our quitting time, or from home.

My workday is 7:30 AM to 4:00 PM, Monday through Friday. The only work I am expected to do outside of the office is to be on call for a week once every 8 weeks or so (we all take turns for one week). While on call, we have a laptop and a cell phone, and we take (very infrequent) calls from the help desk (who are also on-call like we are), and we answer system messages which are automatically sent to the pager when a program abends. We get a little extra in the next paycheck for being on call.

When things get done, they get done. He realizes that the more time you try to squeeze out of someone, the less productive they become. More to the point - when I'm rushed, I often don't take the time to scrutinize my code before I test it, which means I have more bugs to fix. That ends up taking more time to finish the project than if I didn't have a deadline at all (this is completely aside from all the little changes the users subsequently discover they have to have, but were not in the original specifications).

My wife and I don't have kids ourselves, but she is school librarian and former classroom teacher, so we understand what you are going through.

You need to have a talk with your manager about your burnout. If he/she isn't willing to lighten your load, then I suggest talking to a fee-paid employment agency. Good employers appreciate the value of their workforce and don't treat them like slave labor.

Good luck..


"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the Earth with your eyes turned skyward, for here you have been, and there you will always long to return."

--Leonardo da Vinci

 

[Kjonnnn]

You'll have to make a real effort to put your life in balance. Sounds like you have an employer who will "use" you to the fullest until you draw some boundaries.

I know my officmate will probably advance further than I. He eats, sleeps and dreams computers. And is willing to do whatever, whenever. I'm not. I have other interests and tryn to balance computer life with family and recreational life.

Is there a possibility u might suffer professionally? Sure there is. But I guarantee at some point you're gonna look back and realized how much missed out on the growing up of your kids and quality time with your wife unless you force some balance between the 3 of you (work/family/YOU).

 

[sleipnir214]

KornGeek:

It is an old cliché, but true nonetheless: No one on his deathbed ever wishes that he'd spent more time at the office.

Want the best answers? Ask the best questions:

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TANSTAAFL!

 

[BJCooperIT]

This is hardly original advice but it might be as helpful to you as it was to me: Work smarter, not harder!

At one point in my career I was working full-time plus, with a great husband and raising four teenagers. There did not seem to be an end in sight. I re-evaluated my priorities and reworked my approach with the following results:

WORK[ul][li]Got a little more organized to save time (for example I took the time to clean my desk, threw away old notes, organized the keepers, setup e-mail folders, etc.)[/li]
[li]Rethought my working hours (we were able to flex our working hours a bit). Found if I left 15 minutes earlier in the morning, I reduced my commute by 10 minutes and had a half hour of uninterrupted work time before others arrived.[/li]
[li]Enforced, as much as possible, a "gotta leave by" time. Tried to refrain from doing just one more thing before going home. After all, it will be there tomorrow.[/li]
[li]Stopped trying to get a jump on projects where things were still in flux - no use in doing something twice.[/li][/ul]
HOME[ul][li]Delegate responsibility to kids, even little ones can help a bit. Setup a job assignment schedule and posted it. No one leaves the house on weeknights or weekends without their job done.[/li]
[li]Re-scaled my expectations on home cleanliness. Kids clean their bedrooms on Friday, bedroom door shut the rest of the week so I don't have to look at it.[/li]
[li]Schedule family time. We used to play Uno one night every other week. My kids remember those nights clearly while much of the other activities we *thought* were important have faded for them.[/li]
[li]Rethink meals. I was trying to serve the sitdown, full-course, dinner even on work nights. Instead I found I could cook big pots of soup, stew, or spaghetti sauce on the weekend that made for less time consuming meal preparation on week nights.[/li]
[li]Split up the chores with your spouse. I head out to grocery shop while he mows the lawn. Two chores done at once instead of him driving me to the store and being bored while I shop.[/li][/ul]
PERSONAL[ul][li]Get at least 6 hours sleep. Research shows that most of us need multiples of 90 minutes sleep (REM sleep cycles). If I go to bed and get 6.5 hours sleep I have difficulty getting up in the morning due to waking up in the middle of a sleep cycle. Pay attention to what works for you.

http://www.holistic-online.com/Remedies/Sleep/sleep_stages-sleep-cycle.htm

[/li]
[li]Take 15-30 minutes a day for yourself (lunch time will do). Read a novel, surf the web, whatever satisfies your need for a mini-vacation.[/li][/ul]
Good luck!

select * from Life where Brain is not null

Consultant/Custom Forms & PL/SQL - Oracle 8.1.7 - Windows 2000
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[k111er]

At the risk of getting seriously flamed - which is more important? Me, I own my business, so there is NOTHING as important as the success of my company. No kids, so that is an issue that I don't have to deal with. The fiance? Well, she knew the rules going into things - business is, and always will be, number one priority (until my staff is sufficiently experienced that I can back off a little). Work work work work work!! It is good for you, and makes you tougher.

My 0.02$
Jay

 

[sleipnir214]

k111er:
Then in that case you have no family to worry about. In which case your comment, though interesting in a "A large hairy spider is crawling across my arm! How interesting!" kind of way, it is not germane to the discussion.

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TANSTAAFL!

 

[BJCooperIT]

k111er:
You have set your priorities and that is great for you.

Lots of folks enter the workplace with several goals:
1. Make money
2. Have a good time with my friends
3. Be successful (optional for some)

Time passes and the word "friends" is replaced with girl friend/boy friend. The realities of working settle into a routine and the list scrambles a bit. When you get married the list jumbles up a bit more. When you have kids everything is thrown in an uproar. If you have a committed relationship and are bonded with your child(ren) then there are changes in your life you could not possibly have comprehended before. Just like there are probably hassles with running your business that you never anticipated.

When I was 16 and had no car, all I knew was that I wanted one so that I could go where I wanted to, when I wanted to, and not have to ask anyone for a ride. Little did I know the reality of car payments, insurance, washing & waxing, break-downs, maintenance, so-called "friends" coming out of the woodwork wanting rides, fretting over parking lot dings, and so on. When I got my first car, I got a lot more than just my freedom - I got responsibilities. This is true for work and family as well.

Part of the "problem", as I perceive it, is that there is a price to pay for the things we want in life (long hours, a sick child, not enough sleep, family obligations). There can be an overloaded point in time where we either have to give something up or see if there is another way to make it all work. Despite it all, I am not giving up the car!

select * from Life where Brain is not null

Consultant/Custom Forms & PL/SQL - Oracle 8.1.7 - Windows 2000
[sup]When posting code, please use TGML to help readability. Thanks![sup]

 

[CajunCenturion]

A very tough question, and one that no-one can provide the right answer for you. Each of us can only share what is right for us and hope that can help you get in touch with what is right for you.

For me, family is very important. It was with great pride that I watch my daughter graduate from high school last weekend. I watch her grow up, watched her play soccer, attended all her dance reviews, and so forth. That was my choice, and I have no regets. On the flip side, I don't own my own company, but I do consider myself successful because I met those goals that I set for myself as a parent. I am happy.

For killer, based on his post, success and happiness seemed to solely grounded in his professional life. That is how he is investing his life, and he is working to maximize the return on that investment. More power to him, and I wish him all the best. I hope that he is as happy in his choices as I have been in mine.

KornGeek - It really boils down to the choices that you make. What you determine to be your priorities, and the bottom line, is what will make you happy. I would suggest that you get in touch with what is important to you, and make your choices accordingly. You can't buy happiness.

Good Luck
--------------
As a circle of light increases so does the circumference of darkness around it. - Albert Einstein

 

[xutopia]

KornGeek,

After a period of time living in France (having moved from Canada), a friend of mine and I infered that the biggest difference between France and North America was that people in North America lived to work and in France they work to live.

I admit this is generalization and is not true for everyone but it does explain the fact that most people in France take at least one hour for lunch (and eat well too LOL).

Another few interesting facts about France is that everyone has a minimum of 5 weeks paid vacation per year. Also if employees are in a company with more than 30 employees they are not allowed to work above 35 hours per week (and if they do it is added to vacation, they are not allowed to take it as pay). Of course this is law and there are some people that are allowed to work above 35 hours but they are the exceptions.

I'm back in Canada right now and my current job requires that I do lots of extra hours and I'm almost looked down upon if I dare take a few days vacation because there is always a project on the go for which my skills are needed.

Having lived the nice life in France and wanting to insert some of the good stuff from there into my life I did come up with a few coping ideas :

- I do not work on sundays ever and I don't feel bad telling my boss I won't. I try to make sure my boss knows that working saturdays is an exception.

- I eat well. I take about 45 minutes to an hour for lunch and never eat lunch at my desk. Taking a break from work is normal and lunch provides just that break to allow your brain to regain energy.

- buy a book that doesn't have to do with work and escape.

- take up a hobby such as photography, hiking (with your family), golfing (with your wife can be fun too).

- on sundays a fun thing to do that can save you time in the week is cooking. Download a recipe or take a class. Make a nice big meal so you can put a few portions in the freezer for lunches. Organizing your freezer and cooking habits properly can lead to you having 4 meals a week that can be healthier than fast food and will make you want to eat away from your desk to enjoy it fully.

- another thing you might like doing is asking your boss for an extra week of paid vacation instead of a yearly pay raise (on your yearly review day). Say you think you are due for a pay raise of about 2 percent. You could argue that you'd prefer having one more week of paid vacation. Consider that one week of paid vacation is a 1.9% raise (add to that the profit he makes for one week of your work).

Your family is more important than your job so don't feel bad putting them first. If your boss doesn't understand that invite him for supper one night so he can meet your family and show off what cooking skills you gained from those sunday cooking classes!

Gary

http://www.xutopia.com

Haran
==========================

 

[danvlas]

Family comes first.

ALWAYS
And not negotiable.

At least for me...






Daniel Vlas
Systems Consultant

http://www.geocities.com/danvlas/AutoMail.html

 

[iSeriesCodePoet]

Me too... I would tell that manager to get a life. Becuase obviously you don't think I have one. I will work the occasional Saturday, but almost never a Sunday.

Also, try doing this. Ask to go hourly, I bet your hours will drop to 40 hours in a snap if you get hourly. That is what sucks about salary, they know that they get you for as long as they need you. And at many places, there is no "comp time" for it. I was at work for 24 hours one day. We where doing a system upgrade. I asked my manager if I can take an afternoon off, she said yes! It never hurts to ask.


BTW, watch Office Space, I bet you will get a kick out of it!

iSeriesCodePoet
IBM iSeries (AS/400) Programmer

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[k111er]

sleipnir214 - Take your head out of your rearend.
I was under the impression that this was a forum for discussion, implying the ability to present alternate views. If I had known that this was a forum to support your own personal views, I would have left it alone. My statement was both valid and germaine - you can't always create a 'balance' in your life.

There are times that we need to choose. Sometimes it is choosing between chocolate and vanilla cake. Other times, the decisions are harder to make and have longer reaching consequences. Balance is always there, it is just up to you to determine if your life is properly balanced.

If you are comfortable and happy, great, don't change. If you aren't, then change. Simple as that.

 

[xutopia]

on the same subject I was talking to a Peruvian lady who now lives in Canada. She says that here people are too inclined to work rather than have fun.

We came to the conclusion that people were, in North America, so in debt after studying that they needed to work like slaves to pay things off. The fear of loosing their jobs is proportional to the amount of debt you owe people.

In some countries where education is paid for (even university) there is less of a need for people to get a job right away like we do in Canada.

k111er,

Chill out! sometimes we tend to express ourselves in bad ways and it looks worst than it really is. Try not to up the ante with rearend comments though. It only gets uglier if we do.

sleipnir,

Please be careful when answering. You sometimes come across harshly when your intentions are not bad.

Gary

http://www.xutopia.com

Haran
********************************

 

[greyted]

KornGeek,
Bit of a catch 22 isn't it?
Very hard to achieve that balance but I am sure you will.
I think BJCooperIT covered most of the points that I would make. Work smart is superb advice.
Good luck.


Ted

A great many people think they are thinking when they are merely rearranging their prejudices.
(William James)

 

[FutureTech]

Great discussion. It's nice to see that there are many others out there (male & female) who genuinely care about balancing family and career. I just got laid off on Friday (6/27). I think part of the reason is that I recently informed my manager that I could not commit to working unlimited late night and weekend hours on a conversion project. Although I want to be a dedicated employee, I also have an 11 year old daughter that has first dibs on my time. All these posts have been very encourging to me. Thanks.

 

[aesirgeek]

All of these posts are very interesting. I like to see that there are many companies that have a balance in mind. At the company I am currently at, one of the central philosophies is that of "Work/Life Balance". The company is family owned and privately held, so that influences it some. We have flex hours, social groups, activities and more through the company. There are times when people need to be available either on-site or on-call 24/7, especially with some of our global projects, but it rotates frequently or doesn't last long.

As far as people who eat, sleep and breathe computers or technology, how far is that going to get anyone? I can sit here and code or run tech support for my group constantly and it won't advance my career at all. I am encouraged to explore new opportunities, establish new relationships, get different experience (PM in particular) in order to move up the corporate ladder.

I think it is foolish for any company to neglect the fact that no matter what a person's situation is in life, they still have a life outside of the office.

 

[SPguru]

aesirgeek, it is ironic that you espouse a 40-hour work week, yet at the same time say you want to move up the corporate ladder.

Moving up the corporate ladder generally entails more time away from home and more time at the office along with more "things" which cause stress.

An eight-to-fiver will never move up a corporate ladder.

 

[MDXer]

aesirgeek,

That is the way it is at your company you can consider yourself blessed to find a company that actually practices what they preach. I too have worked for companies that maintained a Work/Family balance as being key, But when it came down to the wire and obligation due dates and development deadlines became closer it was nothing but a philosophy. Companies exist to make money Companies hire people to make them money, your family life doesn't make the company money.

There are more compnaies that believe it is a persons obligation to work until they have completed there tasks, than there are companies that believe "well go home after 8 hours and finish it tomorrow", especially in IT. I recently worked at a company where the CIO had stated that in her opinion the IT staff was expected to work 60-70 hours a week.

"Shoot Me! Shoot Me NOW!!!"
- Daffy Duck

 

[habman]

Let's not mistake "corporate productivity" for "quality of life". There's a definite personal gratification in doing a job well and on time, but there's more in helping your kids become good people.

America's "be number one or be nobody" attitude is hurting people's health, moral and families. Think of yourself and your family 1st, if that means working hard, fine. If youcan't balance that to your satisfaction, my advice is, re-prioritize.

I know people who have happpily worked eighty (80) hour weeks for years to achieve certain financial goals, to in turn achieve certain personal goals. Their philosophy at the time was that it was temporary and it was a means to an end. Everyone's goals are different. Most of all, let's not forget, that if you work for someone else, they can always fire you, even if you're very productive, just because the markets are down or some other financial reason.

Killer - hope you don't expect your employees, that have families to put in the time that you do?