Wired vs Wireless issue

[adit39]

This is an old problem that we can't seem to solve. An old client decided to upgrade her system to Win8.1 from XP after years of running with no issues. Her system now runs multi-user network efficiently if wired but problematic if wireless. The following is letter she sent us with analysis from her newest more experienced Network Tech. I would appreciate any comments, opinions or solutions.

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I wanted to give you a breakdown of what has transpired with our computers.

There was some question whether or not Chuck, our previous tech, might have configured the network wrong and his skills being outdated.

I think you know how frustrated I was and put this issue to rest during our busy season. At the beginning of April, I resumed my interest in fixing this problem.

I hired Mac, (the latest and greatest) trained and educated IT guy.

After coming in and analyzing our set up, Mac determined the following:


Here are the facts:

There are only three possible causes of the observed performance degradation: the workstation network cards, the router, or Your Application.

The network only observes performance degradation when Your Application is utilizing the wireless network. While testing the wireless connections of your workstations at the Windows level, there was an absolute minimal level of latency between the workstations, router, and server.

In order to rule out the router and the wireless cards in our workstations, I purchased new hardware that was business grade. A router that took us to a much better channel (no sharing) and a mega network card for one workstation. Mac installed both and ruled out both of those issues.

He wrote:

After introducing new hardware to the client’s system, I am still unable to reduce response times to within the reasonable threshold. Using the 802.11ac standard, the average throughput between the test workstation and access point was ~700MB/s with 99% signal strength and 99% channel quality. After configuring every network-related option available through Windows, the access point, the network adapter, and the server, Application operations were still taking 20 - 30 seconds to process. The only concrete difference that I was able to observe between the wired and wireless connections was through network and packet analysis. While communicating wirelessly with absolutely no authentication or encryption, the amount of data being transmitted between the workstation and server is roughly 40 times greater than when wired. The only conclusion that I can draw is that Salontec does not play nicely with the 802.11 standards.

*****************************************************************************

 

[TamarGranor]

Tell us about your application.

- VFP data or SQL? If SQL, which engine?
- Data stored where? Local machines or a single server?
- Application stored where?
- Are you using a VFP framework? If so, which?

Anything else like that you can think of.

Also, what is the problem your customer is encountering?

Tamar

 

[DSummZZZ]

It don't look like they ruled out windows 8.1 in their scenario.


-Dave Summers-

Even more Fox stuff at:

http://www.davesummers.net/foxprolinks.htm

 

[Olaf Doschke]

>There are only three possible causes of the observed performance degradation: the workstation network cards, the router, or Your Application.

OS version, settings (eg the infamous oplocks), ...

>Application operations were still taking 20 - 30 seconds to process
Whereas that time previously was ???

DB access differs very much from document or streaming access of files. VFP is no server database, each client does act on dbf files. At least, if you use DBFs. The questions Tamar has about the structure of your application are very important.

Bye, Olaf.

 

[adit39]

Thanks for the replies.
My app is VFP8, peer to peer when networked. Have incurred same delays on Win7 OS as well as Win8 in this case. Had no issues for years on XP Network. One 'server' computer is the data server where DBF files are stored. App is running locally on workstations with all necessary support files. All temp files are also stored locally for quick access. The problem is 20-30 second delay on WS when running wireless with other users. The App runs without delay when wired and running with several users. The tech's notes say he tried different computers, router, etc and got same results.
I appreciate and trust your input.
Tony

 

[Olaf Doschke]

From what you say the big difference is the involved OSes, and there were changes in SMB protocol version since Vista.

Overall, this KB article will give you some things to work on:

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/2671338

Bye, Olaf.

 

[JRB-Bldr]

The network only observes performance degradation when Your Application is utilizing the wireless network.

I might be worth your while to look at the following:

Powerline vs Wireless vs Ethernet Networking

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sue1Zvmh8JA

Other web references are consistent by indicating:
Wireless was never meant to be a replacement for wired and will never be. The sole purpose of wireless is mobility, not performance.

You might also want to look at other Google 'finds' at:

https://www.google.com/#q=wired+vs+wireless+speed

Using the 802.11ac standard...
Is there some reason that you are using an OLD WiFi standard instead of 802.11N?
The 'N' protocol will run a good bit faster, although not as fast as Hard Wired - especially if using a 1GB Ethernet Router.

Good Luck,
JRB-Bldr

 

[Dan Freeman]

In addition to what JRB-Bldr says...

My app is VFP8, peer to peer when networked.

File sharing is not at its best on a peer to peer network. This has been the case going back to the very beginning of multi-user applications. (In the old days, it was one of the primary sources of file corruption.)

I'm just tossing this in so you're aware you're starting right off with one paw tied behind Fox's back.

 

[JRB-Bldr]

First let me start with a DOH !!! (a.k.a. Homer Simpson recognizing his own stupidity)

I mistook your 802.11ac for 802.11a when I said that you should be using the 'N' protocol. My Mistake!!!

Regardless you might also look at:

802.11ac is here: Five things you need to know

http://www.zdnet.com/the-five-things-you-need-to-know-about-gigabit-wi-fi-802-11ac-7000017112/

Some other interesting references perhaps worth looking at:

Will 802.11ac wireless be faster than Ethernet?

http://www.makeuseof.com/answers/will-802-11ac-wireless-be-faster-than-ethernet/

​

The Truth About 802.11ac: Dispelling The Myths

http://www.networkcomputing.com/wir...t-80211ac-dispelling-the-myths/a/d-id/1113069

​

Good Luck,
JRB-Bldr

 

[Olaf Doschke]

Some things to add:

-You already did several things all right regarding the MS KB Article
-You have a good evidence by the experience the wifi is a root cause, while it's performance is great for other uses, so it may not be the OSes fault.

Anyway, we had a recent thread thread184-1729508 which focused much on the oplock problem and didn't find the real culprit anyway, you're in a much better position at least knowing a cure by wired networking.

VFP DBF files access like any database fiole access is random access and since VFP has no server side service, it's a lot of two way communcation and may just therefore be much slower on wifi than wired networks. The latency of packets is much more important than bandwidth and speed of streaming or reading large files. There's no tuning, that can change much about this, but to go wired again.

Bye, Olaf.

 

[adit39]

Thanks to all who responded, especially Olaf! I neglected to mention the delay is most noticeable when our appointment module is accessed. Our app uses a DBI-Tech scheduling module but can't get support because the version we have is no longer available or supported. Other features in our app seem to run normally, same speed wired or wireless but we are not in a position to re-write the app and update/convert the scheduling module. It is difficult telling clients they must use ethernet for their networks when so many new and old users are now using Win7 or Win8

 

[JRB-Bldr]

I know that this is an OLD posting, but I just saw this and thought that it might be a good FYI and help individuals understand batter....

This Is Why Your Wi-Fi Is Always Slow

http://www.buzzfeed.com/patricksmith/this-is-why-your-wi-fi-is-always-slow#gacplz

JRB-Bldr