Windows 8.1 Login Issue

[Tom11]

Hello,

I apologize in advance if this is too 'wordy'.

I'm trying to help an elderly neighbor who has an 8.1 PC. It has a 4 digit password which he wanted to eliminate so he could just turn the PC on and do what he wanted, so I told him how to eliminate the login, which he did. He didn't know, and I didn't think to ask, that there was a second level password, which was his yahoo email password, which he forgot. You see, he gets to his email via an icon on the desktop and it logs him on automatically, so he doesn't remember the password. I got him back to the 4 digit password, but he still wants to remove both passwords. I checked online and from what I read, it seems that there is a way to 'disconnect' the email login but it looks as though you have to create another identity to do that. Is this correct? If so, is there a way to remove both passwords and keep the identity (account?) he already has? I'm concerned that if he creates the new identity he'll loose the connection to all his personal settings, documents, etc. Is the identity he logs on to using the 4 character password a 'local' identity, and the one he is supposed to use the email password for another identity (in other words a Microsoft account), or is the email password just a second level password for the same account?

Reference:

https://www.cnet.com/how-to/how-to-switch-your-windows-8-1-log-in-to-a-local-account/

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/14064/windows-8-sign-in-to-windows-without-password

https://www.petri.com/disconnect-a-microsoft-account-from-your-windows-8-login

Any help you could provide would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you.

 

[spamjim]

so I told him how to eliminate the login

How? By creating a new user profile in Windows, setting aside all other stored logins?

he gets to his email via an icon on the desktop

Where does that icon/shortcut lead? To a web browser? To an application?

...and it logs him on automatically

If he logs on to his mail automatically, why does he need to "eliminate" a password?

 

[goombawaho]

I'm think I'm analyzing the problem like this: His user has his email user name/password stored in a browser and thus if you destroy the user, he won't be able to login to his email. To fix the login password issue, you would have to switch to a new user and the login credentials would be left behind.

Better to login now and find out/change the email password, then you can create a new account, delete the old one (keeping files!!) and then copy those files to the new user folders. Then "remember" the email password in a browser if desired or not.

 

[Tom11]

Thank you both for your replies.

spanjim: "How? By creating a new user profile in Windows, setting aside all other stored logins?"

No, by opening his user profile preferences and 'unchecking' the box which, if checked, requires a user to login​

spamjim: "Where does that icon/shortcut lead? To a web browser? To an application?"

The shortcut opens a browser window and logs him on to his email.
Possibly I wasn't clear in my explanation. After we removed the necessity to use the 4 character login to windows, the system 'defaulted', if that's the right word, to his email password to log on to the machine. The use of the email password wasn't to get to his email, it was like a 'fail-safe' windows login.​

spamjim: "If he logs on to his mail automatically, why does he need to "eliminate" a password?"

Again, this wasn't an issue about logging on to his email, this was about logging on to his PC. The use of the email password was, I believe, a secondary login. sort of a password hint if you will. If he uses the 4 character, you never see the email password request, but if you drop the 4 character login, the email password request pops up. I don't think it's a 2 step verification.​

I should point out that I wasn't there when the machine was set up and I don't know who, if anyone, set it up for him. Also, as I wasn't there when he logged on, I don't know if the password requirement is on wake from sleep or just on start up. I'll have to ask him about that. I should also mention that he's 84 years old and I have to give him major kudos for even wanting to use a PC in the first place.

goombawaho: "To fix the login password issue, you would have to switch to a new user and the login credentials would be left behind."

Yes, that's the way I saw it.​

"Better to login now and find out/change the email password, then you can create a new account, delete the old one (keeping files!!) and then copy those files to the new user folders. Then "remember" the email password in a browser if desired or not."
This sounds like a reasonable work around. One concern that comes to mind, however, is what if this is a Microsoft account? I don't actually know if it is or it isn't, but what if it is? Is his data stored in the cloud, and therefore not accessible to another 'user'? How does one find out if it is or isn't? Are there any other down-side consequences I should consider?

 

[spamjim]

I'm having trouble following this as I don't live in a world where passwords are optional (nor do I recall much about Win8). You're describing strange, fanciful things I could only dream about.

The first thing you may check to see is if his account is standard or an administator. You may have more obstacles to automatically logging in if this is an admin system account.

If this is an admin account, his best option may be to keep the passwords as they were. I'm guessing the "elderly" part of the description means there may be memory issues with passwords. This can be easily resolved by keeping the password written down on a post-it note stuck to the monitor. Post-it note security is still better than running a system without any passwords.

 

[strongm]

> a 4 digit password

A PIN, you mean?

 

[Tom11]

Thanks all, again, for your help.

strongm: Yes, I guess it could be a PIN

spanjim: I believe this is a standard account. If he set the machine up himself, he wouldn't know about system admin accounts and if someone set it up for him, I don't think they would set him up as an admin. At least I hope not. Too much chance for causing trouble. You're correct about the forgetful part, but even with the password written down, he sometimes gets it wrong. This is why it frustrates him to have to enter it. I'm coming to think that this account is registered with Microsoft. It seems that Microsoft 'suggests' setting up your pc as a 'microsoft account', though it's not clear during setup that you don't have to do so. The reason is that data on the machine is copied to microsoft's cloud, and I guess it's an added layer of security. That way you can access your files with any pc anywhere and it also serves as a backup. Handy for some, but hardly useful, or necessary, for a single home user, but I think that's what happened. If this is the case, then he would have to either 'disconnect' the microsoft account (as described in one of the references above), or abandon it. This would, I believe, eliminate the use of the email password and thus might allow him to eliminate the PIN, or 4 digit password, in the manner previously described. It might still be necessary to use it to log on from startup, but not necessarily on wake up. I haven't had a chance yet to get back to him on the differences between startup and sleep. I don't know if 8.1 has hibernate. Also, he would still have the option of creating a new account.

Any thoughts on the foregoing would be appreciated.

Thanks very much

 

[strongm]

> Yes, I guess it could be a PIN

Excellent. And you've started going down the road I was going to lead to

> the email password

So, no NOT the user's email password. The Microsoft account password. The may happen to be the same password, but they are not synchronised. So you should be able to go through the 'I forgot my password' process for the Microsoft account

 

[Tom11]

strongm:

Thanks very much. That solves the major issue that was bothering me. If what you suggest is the case, and I suspect it is, then he can either use 'forgot password' to put something easier in its place, or 'disconnect' it as described in the articles referenced above. The last question is if the system wants a password only on start up, on wake from sleep, or both.

Thanks again very much.

 

[Edward Cramer]

Yes, you can. The password can be reset.

 

[Edward Cramer]

Listed some ways to reset Windows 8 password software here,only for software that is easy to operate.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kon-Boot

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cain_and_Abel

https://www.winpwd.com/reset-windows-8-admin-password.html

For these software,reset login password without too many steps.