According to MS Win 2K is suppose to be an all encompassing OS that does "everything" and makes it "simple" for the MIS/TECH person. HA - thats like MS is the most reliable and stable OS in the world and that BSOD''s are just a made up story that our grandfathers told us about - along with there trek to school with no shoes, in freezing weather, and uphill both ways!<br><br>Let me give you a simple example . . . MS is retiring the TCP/IP elective exam. Why? ? ? ? ? Because there reasoning is that the MIS/TECH person does not have to know about these things because Win 2K is going to "handle it." That is like giving matches and gasoline to a pyro-maniac.<br><br>I think that the TCP/IP exam is the most crucial exam to know, take and understand. It gives you a basis for almost all networking concepts from routing to IP addresses. Yet, in one swoop - MS is retiring this exam along with a few others that are affiliated with the MCSE 4.0 track. Am I the only one who thinks this way - that this is not right or do I really need to sit back and exam the issue more?<br><br>Also, If you are an MCSE you have to get certified for Win 2K or your current certification will expire. Does MS think that NT 4.0 is going to disappear Dec 31 2001? Or that every company currently on NT 4.0 is going to upgrade therefore you HAVE TO KNOW Win 2K and spend more money to take the exams at $100 a pop??<br><br>Realistically, upgrading to Win2K is no cheap date! We're talking about thousands of dollars - for even a small company - to do the upgrade. <br><br>To sum up everything . . . retiring the MCSE 4.0 needs to be done - but not for a few more years. When Win2K is more stable, reliable, more secure, and used by the majority of companies and users of the network community - then the certification upgrade should be required. I am not saying that they should do away with the Win2K certification BUT the mandatory upgrade and retirement of the MCSE 4.0 should be re-thought.<br><br>Besides - does your NT 4.0 network ever "retire." <br><br>Pinkman<br><br><br>
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Windows 2000 Certification. . . Getting on my soapbox 1
- Thread starter Pinkman
- Start date
I agree it makes sense that someone other than a vendor would want to do cert testing for non-vendor specific tools. Isn't that already happening with the A+ cert, for instance? I just don't see why anyone should call for that to be free. <br><br>If there's a reason why someone other than a vendor would necessarily be better at testing for expertise with that vendor's product, I'm still missing <i>that</i> point. Unless the point is that the folks at MS are using certs as an additional profit center opportunity :} Yeah, who expected anything different from this highly visible example of the darker side of human nature. But is there something we can do to improve the situation? Because "it's better to light a single candle than to curse the darkness."
Guest_imported
New member
- Jan 1, 1970
- 0
Man... it's amazing how many of you feel the need to "whine" about the Windows 2000 certs. The way that I look at it is that if the Win2k certs get rid of all of the "paper MCSE's" and make it so that there are less MCSE's out there, that means that my certification is worth more money. That means that the people willing to work hard and learn and play with the operating system (in other words the QUALIFIED INDIVIDUALS) will be the ones in demand because they could get the certs -- That is how it is supposed to work.
The MCSE is no longer supposed to be an entry level certification starting with 2K. As far as those complaining about retirement of their nt4 certs, its not like they are telling you that you can't put it on your resume anymore!!! You will always have your MCSE nt4, but they just arent gonna let any more braindump memorizers get the NT4 cert and make it even more worthless than it has already been made by all of the "paper MCSE's".
As far as the TCP/IP deal... I don't understand why you are complaining that MS isn't testing TCP/IP knowledge anymore. They recommend CompTIA and Cisco Certs for that knowledge and EXPECT you to have that knowledge to be able to pass the new 2K tests.
As far as those of you complaining about MS using certs for profit, what's the big deal? They are a corporation. The purpose of a corporation is to make money. Anyone with half a brain should know that a corp isn't going to do something unless it is going to advance their bottom line and increase revenue. So YES!! MS is making money off of the cert process, but who cares??? They are making money for those of us who get the certs too... The only people that I see complaining are either A) too lazy to be willing to actually work towards their certs, B) too stupid to be able to pass the tests, or C) don't have ANY EXPERIENCE AT ALL in the IT field.
Quit sitting around complaining about the problems!!! Instead, get off up and work towards making your future brighter by passing the certs and getting a good job.
-Neo
The MCSE is no longer supposed to be an entry level certification starting with 2K. As far as those complaining about retirement of their nt4 certs, its not like they are telling you that you can't put it on your resume anymore!!! You will always have your MCSE nt4, but they just arent gonna let any more braindump memorizers get the NT4 cert and make it even more worthless than it has already been made by all of the "paper MCSE's".
As far as the TCP/IP deal... I don't understand why you are complaining that MS isn't testing TCP/IP knowledge anymore. They recommend CompTIA and Cisco Certs for that knowledge and EXPECT you to have that knowledge to be able to pass the new 2K tests.
As far as those of you complaining about MS using certs for profit, what's the big deal? They are a corporation. The purpose of a corporation is to make money. Anyone with half a brain should know that a corp isn't going to do something unless it is going to advance their bottom line and increase revenue. So YES!! MS is making money off of the cert process, but who cares??? They are making money for those of us who get the certs too... The only people that I see complaining are either A) too lazy to be willing to actually work towards their certs, B) too stupid to be able to pass the tests, or C) don't have ANY EXPERIENCE AT ALL in the IT field.
Quit sitting around complaining about the problems!!! Instead, get off up and work towards making your future brighter by passing the certs and getting a good job.
-Neo
Yes the win2k certs do make the certs more valuable but most organizations won't be upgrading right away to win2k. So the need for win2K certifaction isn't very pressing to most companies because they are still running nt 4. However just saying that all certifaction is invaild unless you get this, they make it seem like you can't do the job without the win2k tests. Also some people who might be busy in their jobs can't get the certifaction not because they are lazy but because they just don't have time.
Erik
cirvam@netzero.net
Looking to learn more about Linux, Apache, PHP and others.
Erik
cirvam@netzero.net
Looking to learn more about Linux, Apache, PHP and others.
- Thread starter
- #24
Neo,
You sure do have a problem with this issue . . . It is funny that you say that the win2k cert is going to get rid of the "paper MCSE's." You can still get the braindumps, practice exams, and many other types of information on the 2K exam. Ironically, I took a Citrix class a few weeks ago - guess what!? There was a guy in my class that had his MCSE 2K, had NEVER messed with it, went to a boot camp and in one week had his cert.
Any field that you go in - especially the IT field - there are going to be people who have alot of book knowledge - yet couldn't turn on a PC. This is inevitable - no test will ever cure this.
As for Microsoft ASSUMING that you should know about TCP/IP - I totally disagree. This is the basic fundamentals of what NT Networking is all about . . . Cisco does not ASSUME anything - they teach you everything and expect you to know it like the back of you hand. I agree that along with your MCSE cert you should go for the Cisco exams, they tend to go hand in hand. But, the Cisco exam should not be a substitute for Microsofts inability to realize the importance of TCP/IP. The class should still be available.
As for totally retiring the MCSE 4.0 program - I still disagree with this decision by Microsoft. Sure the MCSE will never be discarded from my reseme but it is the fact that Microsoft is cramming win2K down our throats.
I will upgrade my cert to Win2K no matter what - even though our company does not use it - nor have an interest to use it until at least the release of SP4 or SP5. And just to let you know, I have plenty of experience in the field and am not just "talking the talk."
By the way - I have a great job and my network runs smooth. Therefore, I have plenty of time to complain.
You sure do have a problem with this issue . . . It is funny that you say that the win2k cert is going to get rid of the "paper MCSE's." You can still get the braindumps, practice exams, and many other types of information on the 2K exam. Ironically, I took a Citrix class a few weeks ago - guess what!? There was a guy in my class that had his MCSE 2K, had NEVER messed with it, went to a boot camp and in one week had his cert.
Any field that you go in - especially the IT field - there are going to be people who have alot of book knowledge - yet couldn't turn on a PC. This is inevitable - no test will ever cure this.
As for Microsoft ASSUMING that you should know about TCP/IP - I totally disagree. This is the basic fundamentals of what NT Networking is all about . . . Cisco does not ASSUME anything - they teach you everything and expect you to know it like the back of you hand. I agree that along with your MCSE cert you should go for the Cisco exams, they tend to go hand in hand. But, the Cisco exam should not be a substitute for Microsofts inability to realize the importance of TCP/IP. The class should still be available.
As for totally retiring the MCSE 4.0 program - I still disagree with this decision by Microsoft. Sure the MCSE will never be discarded from my reseme but it is the fact that Microsoft is cramming win2K down our throats.
I will upgrade my cert to Win2K no matter what - even though our company does not use it - nor have an interest to use it until at least the release of SP4 or SP5. And just to let you know, I have plenty of experience in the field and am not just "talking the talk."
By the way - I have a great job and my network runs smooth. Therefore, I have plenty of time to complain.
I think I contributed to this thread earlier - anyway, I am now with a company that is 100% Win2K and Solaris 8. Experience so far is that 2000 Advanced Server is vastly superior to NT4.0 in an enterprise setting. We are a software development shop, so we have 65+ Win2K advanced servers running on the network in addition to our test and preproduction servers. The software and environment are much more stable than they would be under NT.
Sure there are some things that are different and quirky, and, yes, I think that MS are retiring the NT certs prematurely, but if you are not implementing Windows 2000, you are going to be left behind and you are dealing today with problems that you don't need to.
Like any other busy professional, I don't know when I'm going to have time to take those new certs, but I will and you should too - this business never stays in one place for long (ask all those Novell CNEs).
Love or hate Microsoft (and I think most of us are closer to hate than love), Windows 2000 is a much better product than NT, and companies and engineers that don't embrace it will be at a disadvantage in the future.
Sure there are some things that are different and quirky, and, yes, I think that MS are retiring the NT certs prematurely, but if you are not implementing Windows 2000, you are going to be left behind and you are dealing today with problems that you don't need to.
Like any other busy professional, I don't know when I'm going to have time to take those new certs, but I will and you should too - this business never stays in one place for long (ask all those Novell CNEs).
Love or hate Microsoft (and I think most of us are closer to hate than love), Windows 2000 is a much better product than NT, and companies and engineers that don't embrace it will be at a disadvantage in the future.
CitrixEngineer
Technical User
Excellent thread. It reminds me of this one :
Many of you know this site already, I'm sure! Those who don't, please look around. It ranges from the childish to the propellor-headed excellence we'd all like to attain.
Please note: Some of the language will be offensive to some members of this forum, so if strong language offends you, do not visit this site.
Many of you know this site already, I'm sure! Those who don't, please look around. It ranges from the childish to the propellor-headed excellence we'd all like to attain.
Please note: Some of the language will be offensive to some members of this forum, so if strong language offends you, do not visit this site.
Guest_imported
New member
- Jan 1, 1970
- 0
anyone know the best and quickest to get certified in NT2000 ? and when i say quickest .......i also mean reliable..........any info. would be greatly appreciated.
steve
steve
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