Windows 12 4

[Mandy_crw]

Hi everyone… i miss all the lessons being taught in this forum… my application is working fine, im just keep on enhancing… thank you everyone for all your help…

I have seen in youtube that windows 12 is already out, will vfp9 or my application be still work or installed in the said operating system? Thanks guys…

 

[Chris Miller]

There is no Windows 12 yet. Only look into official announcements from Microsoft and there is none yet.

Sites I trust about making announcements outside MS, perhaps, report a probable release of Window 12 in June 2024. For example, see

https://mashable.com/article/windows-12-os-leak-june-2024

And they actually don't trust the source of the leaked information.

Windows 12 launch window leak is sketchy

This should be taken with a heavy grain of salt

No speculations by me on things I can't speculate about as they are merely an idea of an announcement. I wonder what you found on youtube, likely speculation on the same level.

Chriss

 

[Mike Lewis]

Welcome back, Mandy. It's been a while since we've seen you here.

To answer your question, you should never rely on random YouTube videos for important technical information - about versions of Windows or anything else. Although there are reputable experts making genuinely useful videos, you must remember that anyone can upload to YouTube without any form of reliability check. You need to apply some common sense filtering before relying on the information you see there.

Mike

__________________________________
Mike Lewis (Edinburgh, Scotland)

Visual FoxPro articles, tips and downloads

 

[Mandy_crw]

Thanks Chriss…

Hi Mike… missing all you teachings with Chriss and other members of this forum… thank you… Godbless you always…

 

[ggreen61]

I agree with the comments from Chris and Mike. VFP 9 goes back to 2006 which was the last time it was updated. Since then, there has been many updates to Windows and none have completely broken VFP. The closest that I have seen is the Windows screen magnification setting which has workarounds. I don't think another version of Windows would cause VFP to stop working as it would also affect a lot of other legacy programs that people use. Generally, MS tries to maintain backward compatibility of existing programs.

We just have to wait and see...

Greg

 

[GriffMG]

What about the problems with printing images from general fields!

Regards

Griff
Keep [Smile]ing

There are 10 kinds of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.

I'm trying to cut down on the use of shrieks (exclamation marks), I'm told they are !good for you.

There is no place like G28 X0 Y0 Z0
​

 

[Chris Miller]

Well,...

While we're at this: Just look into which applications based on even older versions of FoxPro still run and the worries you have should fade away.

You want facts, then you have to wait for people getting preview versoins of the next Windows and test VFP versions on it. This has been done in the past and will surely happen before Windows is released in its final version.

Microsoft has several programs like the Silver/Gold Partner program mainly providing business advantages in licensing and the insider program, also the MVP program, where people get earlier than official announcements under NDA (non disclosure agreement). There's one type of insider that doesn't exst anymore: The FoxPro MVP. MS has not only discontinued the product VFP in 2007, it has also retired this special MVP title since 2011. But some of the MVPs from the VFP commmunity also have other MVP titles like SQL Server MVP, so there are still enough people also within our developer community that could give a warning as early as possible.

Let's look at the worst case scenario: VFP (9 or lower versions) applications would not run on Windows 12. Then they still could run on the same hardware not upgrading to Windows 12 or even on a Windows 12 new hardware pc, because it would be the first time you could not run an earlier Windows version within a virtual machine. And since PC virtualisation gets better and better and integrates seamless into the host desktop, you could still run a VFP application on a Windows 12 desktop, even if it won't run on Windows 12 directly.

So, even in the advent of the first Windows version/edition not running VFP, you still will have many more years of running on either virtual PC or on computers keeping their Desktop to the previous Window versions. The MS product lifecycle policy also never made it irresponsible to run on the previous version than the latest, the lifecycle with suppport for security related fixes still goes on until the next 2 versions of Windows are released, so the worry about a Windows not running VFP applications is a pointless worry.

Also in another sense, if you really want something that is guaranteed to work on the next Windows, you would need to program in the mainstream programming languages on Windows, which means Visual Studio or also other IDEs supporting other mainstream languages like Java or C++ with a roadmap that stretches far into the future. You could have started that back in 2007, when the discontinuation of VFP was announced.

So last not least, I can't take that worry seriously of anyone, even if of those staying in VFP based on the codebase and knowlegde they already had. It's not an argument you can make for over 16 years, that's enoough time to develop a new line of knowledge even when only having the time to learn them on the side.

Chriss

 

[Chris Miller]

Just pointing out one aspect of a programmers life:

AI is on the way to replace us, or at least some of our work will be done AI assisted. I never heard of AI generating VFP code. But if you take that as a sign you have the right niche not affected by AI, you underestimate the ability of programmers optimising their efficiency by using AI for assistance. To enable that, you surely will have to switch to something that can be AI assisted.

For reference, take a look at this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jPhJbKBuNnA

The title is not actually reflecting what I got from the video. It shows AI can be helpful to get a job done by just making the final adjustments, once you made the architectural decisions to cut the overall task into overseeable smaller tasks.

Chriss

 

[Scott24x7]

Mandy,
One thing to keep in mind, while VFP hasn't been supported since 2009, it's survived all the 64bit releases of Windows from XP to Win 11, so there is 0 reason to think that it might "go away".
But beyond that, if it were to happen you still have many options for running it. It would seem that since VFP application is your platform of choice, for a system that hasn't been supported by Microsoft for coming up on 15 years, one option is: Don't upgrade your windows version. Just stay on the old one. You can still update your VFP application, and run it there.
Even IF it were to be "killed" by a new version of Windows, just run it in a VM. The VM will support any current and previous version of operating systems from DOS 2.0 to any Linux, Mac, Intel and ARM Win releases, etc. It's likely to support just about everything except something ancient like CP/M or OS/2.
So if it can run in a version of Windows not that can run in a version of VM ware now, even if you want to use some new OS, it won't stop you.
There are also many other options for Virtualization of platforms, VMWare is just the one I use...


Best Regards,
Scott
MSc ISM, MIET, MASHRAE, CDCAP, CDCP, CDCS, CDCE, CTDC, CTIA, ATS, ATD

"I try to be nice, but sometimes my mouth doesn't cooperate.

 

[Mandy_crw]

Hi griff… all images are working now, the whole applications is perfectly working fine… thank you so much… and to everybody Chris, Mike, Scott an to all… Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year.

 

[GriffMG]

Likewise Mandy

Regards

Griff
Keep [Smile]ing

There are 10 kinds of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.

I'm trying to cut down on the use of shrieks (exclamation marks), I'm told they are !good for you.

There is no place like G28 X0 Y0 Z0
​

 

[Mike Lewis]

one option is: Don't upgrade your windows version.

I like that idea - except that the developer doesn't always have any control over the users' systems.

Mike

__________________________________
Mike Lewis (Edinburgh, Scotland)

Visual FoxPro articles, tips and downloads

 

[GriffMG]

Sometimes the user has no control over the users system (Windows Update)...

Regards

Griff
Keep [Smile]ing

There are 10 kinds of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.

I'm trying to cut down on the use of shrieks (exclamation marks), I'm told they are !good for you.

There is no place like G28 X0 Y0 Z0
​

 

[Scott24x7]

Griff,
There are MANY ways to prevent Windows Updates from being applied.
And for some systems, like Point of Sales they don't need to be on the internet (or can use LAN and a gateway that controls where and what internet sites can be reached), a simple LAN on an Intranet suffices.
Not everything has to be solved in VFP.


Best Regards,
Scott
MSc ISM, MIET, MASHRAE, CDCAP, CDCP, CDCS, CDCE, CTDC, CTIA, ATS, ATD

"I try to be nice, but sometimes my mouth doesn't cooperate.

 

[GriffMG]

It's pretty tough to stop windows updates on some editions, I have a routine that turns it off every hour, and kills the
medic and reinstates the SMB 1 that I need and turns off the medic for that too... and still I see it coming back every
once in a while - rarely actually doing it when I'm not ready, but it does happen.

Regards

Griff
Keep [Smile]ing

There are 10 kinds of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.

I'm trying to cut down on the use of shrieks (exclamation marks), I'm told they are !good for you.

There is no place like G28 X0 Y0 Z0
​

 

[Scott24x7]

"I never heard of AI generating VFP code."

Clearly you've never used ChatGPT then.
Here's something I just generated using ChatGPT, and while simple enough, also demonstrates a lot of complexity.

DECLARE INTEGER EnumDisplayMonitors IN win32api INTEGER, INTEGER, INTEGER, INTEGER
DECLARE INTEGER GetMonitorInfo IN win32api INTEGER, STRING @
DECLARE INTEGER SetWindowPos IN win32api INTEGER, INTEGER, INTEGER, INTEGER, INTEGER, INTEGER, INTEGER

FUNCTION MonitorEnumProc
    LPARAMETERS hMonitor, hdcMonitor, lprcMonitor, dwData

    LOCAL lcMonitorInfo, lnMonitorInfoSize
    lcMonitorInfo = SPACE(40)  && Allocate buffer for MONITORINFO structure
    lnMonitorInfoSize = LEN(lcMonitorInfo)
    BUF2NUM(lcMonitorInfo, 1) = lnMonitorInfoSize

    IF GetMonitorInfo(hMonitor, @lcMonitorInfo) <> 0
        * Process monitor information here
        * Use SUBSTR(lcMonitorInfo, ...) to extract monitor details
    ENDIF

    RETURN 1  && Continue enumeration
ENDFUNC

PROCEDURE MoveAppToRightmostMonitor
    LOCAL lnRightmostMonitorX, lnLowestMonitorY, lnAppWidth, lnAppHeight, lnNewX, lnNewY

    lnRightmostMonitorX = 0
    lnLowestMonitorY = 0

    * Enumerate monitors and update lnRightmostMonitorX and lnLowestMonitorY
    EnumDisplayMonitors(0, 0, @MonitorEnumProc, 0)

    * Calculate new position for the application window
    lnAppWidth = _SCREEN.Width
    lnAppHeight = _SCREEN.Height
    lnNewX = lnRightmostMonitorX + (lnMonitorWidth - lnAppWidth) / 2
    lnNewY = lnLowestMonitorY + (lnMonitorHeight - lnAppHeight) / 2

    * Move the application window
    SetWindowPos(_SCREEN.HWnd, 0, lnNewX, lnNewY, lnAppWidth, lnAppHeight, 0)
ENDPROC

I just asked this of ChatGPT: Create a procedure that will detect multiple monitors and always move the application when it starts to the center of the lowest monitor on the right, for a VFP application.

AI is coming for development. BTW, it took about 10 - 15 slow paced seconds for it to generate this. What I love is that this demonstrates not only mastery of VFP but also interaction with Windows API. If I had written this myself it would have taken hours to days for me to work out, not that I'm a VFP/WinAPI genius, but that's part of the point.


Best Regards,
Scott
MSc ISM, MIET, MASHRAE, CDCAP, CDCP, CDCS, CDCE, CTDC, CTIA, ATS, ATD

"I try to be nice, but sometimes my mouth doesn't cooperate.

 

[Scott24x7]

"It's pretty tough to stop windows updates on some editions"

ChatGPT to the rescue again (For Win10 and Win11):

Open the Run dialog, type services.msc, and press Enter.
Find Windows Update in the services list.
Right-click and go to Properties, set the Startup type to Disabled.

No more updates ever.


Best Regards,
Scott
MSc ISM, MIET, MASHRAE, CDCAP, CDCP, CDCS, CDCE, CTDC, CTIA, ATS, ATD

"I try to be nice, but sometimes my mouth doesn't cooperate.

 

[Chris Miller]

Clearly you've never used ChatGPT then.

True, indeed, I only read about it, watched videos. Fair enough, I think it "read the whole internet", oversimplified, which also includes VFP documentation.

Wouldn't have expected it to be enough to write such code.

So it'll be my new standard answer: Ask ChatGPT to program that for you.

Chriss

PS: Looking into details, I wonder...

EnumDisplayMonitors(0, 0, @MonitorEnumProc, 0)

How could that work?

And this is incomplete, just a sketch of what should be done:

    IF GetMonitorInfo(hMonitor, @lcMonitorInfo) <> 0
        * Process monitor information here
        * Use SUBSTR(lcMonitorInfo, ...) to extract monitor details
    ENDIF

Well, referring back to Tom Scotts video, that's something you may fix or extend in further ChatGPT dialog, if not finishing it yourself.

 

[ggreen61]

Looking at the ChatGPT code, it is not complete nor will it work as is. It may be close, but no "cigar". The method MoveAppToRightmostMonitor does not initialize the variables lnMonitorWidth and lnMonitorHeight, so they would fail. Also, I have not seen the following:

EnumDisplayMonitors(0, 0, @MonitorEnumProc, 0)

In the above it seems to be calling the function MonitorEnumProc; however, I have not seen this syntax before -- does anyone know if it is correct? Can you call a function as parameter with @ proceeding it? Normally using the syntax of @ would pass by reference; in the above what variable is being passed? The return value from the MonitorEnumProc method is a value and not a variable. Also, the parameters for MonitorEnumProc are not added so these values would all default to NULL causing this method to fail.

ChatGPT may provide a quick starting point, but I think the code still has to be massaged.

Greg

 

[Steve-vfp9user]

In answer to Mandy’s post, I am a subscriber to “Computer Active” and this was an article in issue 673 dated 20 December 2023:

Quote:

WINDOWS 12 'COMING JUNE 2024'.
Microsoft will release Windows 12 in June 2024, according to Taiwan's biggest financial newspaper Commercial Times. It made the claim based on comments by Acer boss Jason Chen and Quanta boss Barry Lam at the Taiwan Medical Technology Exhibition in December. Quanta is a PC and hardware manufacturer based in Taiwan.
They also said that "Al computers" will launch in 2024. These will have Al capabilities built into the processor.
Microsoft hasn't commented officially on whether it's planning to release Windows 12, but company sources have told our sister site Windows Central that it's working on a new version of the operating system that's powered by Al.
This will include an "advanced Copilot" that runs constantly in the background to enhance searches and perform tasks faster, they said.
There's talk also of a new logo, possibly incorporating the Copilot icon.

End quote

So maybe there is a possibility that Windows 12 is on its way and if so, who knows if our beloved VF9 will work. I’m staying with Windows 10 regardless but digressing slightly, when support ends for version 10 on the 14 October 2025, you can pay as an individual for support!

Thank you

Steve Williams
VFP9, SP2, Windows 10