Win95 Install on Multi-Partitioned Drive Already Containing XP 2

[Jekteir]

Hi, sorry about the difficulty this problem may pose. I would greatly appreciate anyone's help with this issue.

I would like to install 95 on my PC. I am already running XP in a multi-partitioned drive, and XP's partition is full of files, so I definitely don't want to reformat.

The drive looks like this (according to Partition Magic):

Partition: Type: Size: Status: Pri/Log:

Local Disk (C NTFS 4,996.7MB Active Primary
(*) Extended 281,176.7MB None Primary
WIN95 (F FAT32 6,000.8MB None Logical
XP (G NTFS 275,175.8MB None Logical
(*) Unallocated 7.8MB None Primary


Now, it is the complexity of this setup, which the XP installation is responsible for (I said I wanted partitions at setup, but didn't realise how it would arrange them), which causes particular problems with installing 95, as I understand it. As you probably figured, I want to install 95 on the partition called WIN95 - F:. All my XP stuff is on XP (G. Windows Disk Management puts a bracket behind C: with (System) in it, and a bracket behind G: with (Boot) in it. However, my autoexec, boot.ini, ntdetect.com etc. files are in C:, and all of my windows files for XP are in G:. I don't know if that makes sense, but that's the way it is.

Another post I found pointed to

http://www.bcpl.net/~dbryan/ntfs-dual-boot.html

, and it does seem helpful. However, my level of knowledge is not great enough to be sure about some of the issues he discusses. I'm not sure what 'Drive 0' is (first he says it's "the NTFS boot partition", and then one of his later rules is "The DOS partition must be on Drive 0 at boot time"), or whether my 'extended partition'-seeming setup is a problem or not - and how to fix it if it is.

Is it plausible to install Windows 95 into F:, and have a dual-booting system? I want to be able to run DOS stuff with 95, of course. I managed to boot with a DOS6.22 disk and then run the Win 95 CD's setup.exe, and that offered me the message, "You will need to create an MS-DOS boot partition to set up windows". That's what started me on this path.

Any and all help with this would be gratefully received.

Jek

 

[wolluf]

btw - boot-us menu can be installed to floppy disk (or MBR/free partition) - can be useful if you don't want to actually update the hard drive - or for testing it works before you do update the hard drive (I tend to use that option nowadays - used to use MBR). You need to install the boot-us app in windows to create this menu. The command line app lets you manipulate settings from a dos boot disk.

(or of course use bootmagic).

 

[Jekteir]

Hi again guys. Thanks a lot, both of you, for your immense amount of help thus far.

I have reached the next stage: namely, I managed to install 95 (took hiding everything except for the 95 partition, and setting that partition Active from the boot-disk version of PartitionMagic). It told me to reboot, and so I did, fully expecting (OK, not that much - let's face it, after this number of problems one never expects it to work!) that it might have overwritten the boot record so that it would boot straight to 95 (I kept the floppy drive empty).

However: I get the message 'Missing operating system' and that's it.

I tried booting from my 95 boot disk, which takes me comfortably into a DOS prompt in the C: drive (which is actually the 95 partition, since the others are hidden). From there I tried going into the Windows directory and doing "win", but it told me it couldn't find HIMEM.SYS (which I checked, and which was there).

I can still boot into XP from the us-boot disk, however, even though the one I had in the MBR has been wiped.

What should I be doing to fix up 95? In the install it said it had to reboot to complete setup. Can I sort it from the XP partition? I looked at

http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=134708&sd=RMVP

and it's obviously intended for people who haven't been messing about with the partitions. I rechecked the partitions and made sure the 95 partition was Active and the only one visible, but it still wouldn't load.

Thanks a lot,

Jek

 

[Jekteir]

P.S. On the basis of some messageboards I saw, I just tried 'sys c:' from my win 95 boot floppy - it said 'system transferred' but on reboot it was the same deal.

To clarify a bit, when I reboot with no floppies, it goes to 'Missing operating system' (I presume because the mbr now points to C: instead of the old, now-hidden boot partition, and so it's now trying to make the 95 installation load).

When I boot with the us-boot loader, and then load the win 95 partition, first it says 'non system disk - please remove', and once I've done that and hit a key, it comes up with the 'Missing operating system' again.

Maybe I should try repairing with the win 95 install CD somehow.

Jek

 

[Jekteir]

P.P.S. Just reloaded XP, reinstalled the boot-us loader on the MBR. After seeing the warnings on PartitionMagic about how 95 and 98 hate to see other partitions, I set it up to hide everything from 95, but let XP see all the partitions.

Now I just need to figure out how to load 95 In the 95 partition, there's "WINDOWS", some hidden/system files for loading stuff [autoexec, command.com, config.sys, config.win, detlog.txt, drvspace.bin, io.sys, msdos.---, msdos.sys, netlog.txt, setuplog.txt, suhdlog.txt, system.1st], and "PROGRA~1", which contains "ACCESS~1", "MICROS~1", "PLUS!", and "THEMIC~1".

In case it's worth looking at, setuplog.txt is up at

http://www.icecoolcode.com/setuplog.txt

. The ending seems to have some interesting stuff in it. Like:

TPS_Flush() Informational log: Setup didn't rename old file :C:\WINDOWS\wininit.ini: to :C:\WINDOWS\wininit.---:

[and similar]

Is the fact that msdos.--- is 22 bytes and msdos.sys is 1.6KB interesting?

I'm clutching at straws.

Jek

 

[Jekteir]

Just ran a reinstall. Still did fine, got to the restart bit, restarted and 'Operating system missing'. This time I made a windows 95 startup disk, but it does exactly the same as my other boot disk - loads to a dos prompt, and goes no further. 'Win' from 'Windows' still gives the HIMEM.SYS error. I forgot to mention earlier, that it does says 'setup is finishing configuring files. configuration done. Now continuing to load windows...' or something like that before it hits the himem problem.

Also, I didn't mention earlier that I couldn't install Win95 from my Win95 boot disk because it wouldn't load the CD drives. So I copied the CD files to the Win95 partition from XP, and then when the win boot disk loaded, I went to C: (what it thinks the partition is) and ran setup from the files there - I put them in C:\TEMPWIN.

Any ideas? I'm going to check my HIMEM soon - it looks to be the right size right now.

Thanks,

Jek

P.S. 'Missing operating system' still abounds if I just let it try and boot to 95.

 

[edfair]

You want to have himem.sys in a config.sys on the c: for bootup into DOS, then delete it before running setup.
The next stage or 95 setup uses an internal call to himem.sys.

Your setup from the hard drive should be fine as described except you may have more than you need. Ususal is just the win95 directory.

Are you having fun yet?


Ed Fair
Give the wrong symptoms, get the wrong solutions.

 

[Jekteir]

I wouldn't say "fun" exactly I'm moving to a different building tomorrow, and my floppy drive has to stay here ;P Are you saying, use my win 95 bootdisk as usual to get to C:, but have the line:

DEVICE=C:\WINDOWS\HIMEM.SYS

in the config.sys on the floppy? Delete the file from where? When you say setup, do you mean reinstalling windows, or do you mean running 'win' from windows in a bid to finish the installation?

Hmm. I have been running setup.exe from the basic CD directory, not from win95...I also notice the file 'oemsetup' in Win95...maybe I should be using that to install?

Thanks, I'm gonna go to bed, hope you see this before the morning

Jek

 

[wolluf]

Jek,

You've just over complicated the whole situation - you're running wild. Its a piece of piss (UK term) to achieve what you want - even with your outlandish start point. I suspect you like a bit of choas!! (I've got 6 o/s multi-booting from 2HDs - previously 8 - ie, its not hard)

You can play to you drop - but here's the rub

- operating systems need a boot sector (which may or may not be in the partition they are installed into)
- the boot code (and it is a program) is what's loaded by the bios to start the operating system.
- XP and 9x have completely different boot sectors - but XP is programmed to detect 9x/ME, convert its boot sector to a file and create a dual boot menu.

If you've really filled up most of your 300GB drive with stuff you need, and you really want a dual boot - then I'd buy another 300GB drive, backup and start again.

Or buy vmware or virtualPC.

(this is not a criticism - you just seem to be going off in all sorts of directions, and because you started in the wrong place, you're getting 'peripheral' problems0

 

[Jekteir]

Hey guys, sorry about my silence for a day or two. I have moved back into my university building, and the internet isn't currently available there. This means I also no longer have a floppy drive!

Before I left, however, I tried booting from a disgo USB memory key. The objective was actually just to get to E: and try installing win 98 instead, but because I'd put my Win95 boot disk onto the disgo drive, it booted 95, and actually managed to finish the setup. However, now it dies hard, without warning, when I try to enter the OS. It gives me options such as safe mode etc., but whatever I pick it fails during the load and crashes straight to a reboot. No information on why in the boot log.

Anyway, I can't do it here right now, because I no longer have a floppy drive with which to save myself if it all goes wrong. I tend to agree with your buy-a-new-drive advice - although I can assure I'm not doing this for the 'chaos' factor! I'm doing it because I don't want to have to buy a new drive I also had to add the MaxPhysPage=30000 setting in system.ini before I could continue (cause I had too much RAM). Maybe my system is just too new for 95...dunno. I think I might have had more luck with 98, but it's too late to try until the end of term, in 8 weeks, or until I buy a floppy drive and get it sent here.

Thanks a lot for your help with all this.

Jek