Why/What is destroying Language

[CasperTFG]

I think the ease of creating, modifying and transfering data is what is destroying language.

In the days before correction fluid, If you made a mistake typing a letter, you started over. Therefore would also make sure you were writting the proper thing in the first place. Thought was actually put into what was typed or written down.

If anyone has ever used a telex machine you know exactly what I mean. If you made one incorrect key stroke, you would have to go back to the begining.

Our own impatients is also destroying language. Many of us would agree that we would rather read a simple to the point paragraph than a long winded essay on it.

The ease of transfering data also makes us sloppy. Today we can send out a message, then make a correction and send it again. Change our mind and adjust it again. All of this can be done and sent in a matter of minutes. If this was all going through letter carrier it could drag on for a month.

Today I got a perfect example of this. I sent a purchase order out. The company replied back to me that I priced an item in USD rather than CDN. I made the adjustment and sent it again. They replied with an invoice, on the invoice I noticed they wrote down an incorrect hardware extension.

All of this back and forth resending via fax, lasted a total of about an hour. If there was no email or fax, then this process would have gone on for months and I probably would have made sure everyone had the right information to begin with to avoid all of this.

The attitiude today is get it done and out the door. If something needs to be changed or fixed it can be changed then.

Just my thoughts.



Casper

There is room for all of gods creatures, "Right Beside the Mashed Potatoes".

 

[sleipnir214]

Sorry, MakeItSo. My last post was directed to CasperTFG and I didn't correctly direct the post. You posted as I was composing.


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[sleipnir214]

Let me repost:

[red]CasperTFG[/red]:
I think I understand what you're saying.

I certainly don't understand your point. If two utterances can transmit the same information, why is it necessarily better to use the more long-winded one?


MakeItSo:
I agree with you -- to a point. That point being that how you say something is part of the information transmitted.


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[Dimandja]

Actually, words printed on paper are easier to read. Electronic documents are notoriously harder to read.

I agree with CasperTFG that the media we use have whole lot to do with the direction languages and associated skills take.

I started school with minimal gadgetry. For instance, all my essays were written in long hand. Some consequences of that is that people who went to the type of schools I went to:

1. Write more legibly.
2. Make fewer mistakes (typos, grammar).
3. Have a broader vocabulary.
4. Uphold the integrity of the language (no "u", "y" and other silly shorthands).

All that because of the degree of attention and research that went into each essay. There was no "copying" and "pasting" anything.

I welcome and enjoy the advantages of technology, because it enhances all the advantages I already acquired as a careful writer. No amount of technology will improve a mediocre writer - it will only more easily make matters worse.

 

[sleipnir214]

Dimanja:
I don't see how any of your claims would necessarily follow from long-hand writing.


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[Grenage]

No amount of technology will improve a mediocre writer

I strongly dissagree with you on that point; it's not the tools that matter but how you use them.

My spelling and formatting have greatly improved thanks to certain internet sites and my trusty PDA.

 

[Dimandja]

As strongm would say: Oh dear!

Which part of those skills eludes you, sleipnir?

Writing an essay in longhand is an art in itself. You necessarily also must write legibly.

If you make a mistake of any kind, you must rewrite the whole page. This is painful.

Because of the attention paid to each word, you tend to research more of what you write. You also tend to write "through" rather than "thru", for example.

 

[sleipnir214]

Grenage:
So now you're a mediocre writer with good spelling and readable typography?



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[CajunCenturion]

I think that when you cut to the chase, it has nothing to do with the tools or the technology.

It boils down to the individual. The author is responsible for what they produce, regardless of how it is produced, and how they want their written word to reflect upon themselves.

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[Dimandja]

Grenage:
So now you're a mediocre writer with good spelling and readable typography?

This is vintage sleipnir.

When I wrote "legible", I din't say "readable". Nuance.

 

[CajunCenturion]

hmmmmmmmmmm

Good Luck
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[Grenage]

So now you're a mediocre writer with good spelling and readable typography?

Quite, although improved none the less!

 

[sleipnir214]

Dimandja:
I was sure I directed my last post to Grenage.


But since you brought it up....

1. Write more legibly.
2. Make fewer mistakes (typos, grammar).
3. Have a broader vocabulary.
4. Uphold the integrity of the language (no "u", "y" and other silly shorthands).

If you make a mistake of any kind, you must rewrite the whole page. This is painful.

Because of the attention paid to each word, you tend to research more of what you write. You also tend to write "through" rather than "thru", for example.

Like CasperTFG, you are arguing that the medium chosen somehow equates to the quality of the output.

Write more legibly than who or what?
Make fewer mistakes than who or what?
Have a broader vocabulary than who or what?

While I will stipulate that the practice of longhand writing will make a person's handwriting more legible than it was before. But that does not make your essay any more readable -- just more legible.

And I will stipulate that practicing writing will increase one's vocabulary. But this is medium-independent. Anyone who writes, whether it's with a quill pen or a word-processor, will benefit from this.

The claim that makes the least sense to me is how the additional fatigue that will go into multiple rewrites of a page to remove errors will make for fewer mistakes. In all other human efforts, fatigue increases, not decreases, mistakes. Why would writing be different?

As to the use of typographical shortcuts, that has to do with the style of writing, not the medium. I once received a hand-written note that read, in part, "I love u". But a love-note is not an essay. Nor is most posting on the internet.


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[Stella740pl]

What's "long hand"?

Dimandja,
All the consequences you listed are not necessarily directly tied to hand writing (long hand writing?).

I also went to school with minimal gadgetry. Calculators were allowed only in high school physics classes - only after we mastered doing calculations in the head, on paper, with abacus and with sliding ruler - yes, all of those. I hand wrote long-winded analytical essays on topics from classical literature; looked up words in big fat dictionaries and went to a library to do research.
When I needed to draw a graph of some mathematical function, I painstakingly put pencil dots in my square-ruled notebook, then connected them; and if I decided I want to move that paragraph in the middle to the beginning of my essay, I just had to rewrite it from the start.

Now my daughter has it all at her fingertips - computer to type her school works, internet plus books to do research, electronic and paper dictionaries, cut and paste technology, graphic calculator, etc. She still reads normal paper books, spells well by herself, knows her math and writes long essays with complete words, quotes, and everything.
They still teach essay writing, not text messaging in school. Those are not the type I used to write, not as long as well, but then, we go to school in different times and in different countries, it also matters a lot. (Besides, I had mother with a degree in philology/ linguistics who came home early as most teachers, and her mom has a totally different degree and works till late .)
Well, her essays look much better than mine did, thanks to word processors and printers; it takes her less time to do research, to compose her essays, to proofread her school works, to look up words - but how bad is that?

I wish I had all this technology available to me back then. I don’t think I would have abused it.

 

[Grenage]

What's "long hand"?

I believe it is the American name for joined handwriting

 

[sleipnir214]

stella740pl:
"Longhand" is simply writing something out by hand, usually in cursive script.

I guess the term is used do disambiguate regular writing from shorthand which is any one of a set of rapid-writing systems where quickly-writeable symbols replace words.


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[CasperTFG]

If the medium is not the reason why we have gotten sloppy then what is? Why is it I had to re-send a very large purchase order out 3 times to correct these stupid mistakes:

1) One item priced in USD not CDN
2) Product extension not included correctly
3) Our fax number not correctly entered
4) Terms (30 day pmnt.) not entered in the appropriate box.
5) Shipping Costs not included.

If the medium was not there to send the message quickly do you really think the PO that was originally sent by my Manager would have been sent out more than once?

If he had to mail the Purchase orders back and forth instead of being able to email and fax them. Don't you think there might have been a few more checks and double checks that things were done right in the first place?

Perhaps because I myself had to spend long hours at the Telex machine in my earlier days. I understand the importance of getting it right the first time. Typing out my message 6 or 7 times, proofreading and adjsuting it several times before even going close to the Telex. Then spending time on each keystroke because there was no erase or Back Space. You either got it right the first time or started over.



Casper

There is room for all of gods creatures, "Right Beside the Mashed Potatoes".

 

[Stella740pl]

sleipnir214,
Oh, I didn't make that connection. I've always known what shorthand is. In Russian, we use greek word "stenography" for that.

 

[sleipnir214]

stella740pl:
You hear the term stenography in English, too.

stenography, though, most commonly-implies the use of a Stenograph recording machine. Although, you can buy at nearly any stationery store top-spiral bound notebooks that are called "steno pads", which are used for written-shorthand notetaking.


CasperTFG:
The medium did not make those mistakes. The person who produced the invoice did.

If anything, the speed of the medium allows for quick detection and checking of mistakes. If the creator of the invoice is using this speed as a rationalization for sloppy work on his own part, then he is simply not doing his job.

History is rife with humor and tragedy from fouled-up paperwork.



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[CasperTFG]

But did the Medium allow that person to be lazy...

Casper

There is room for all of gods creatures, "Right Beside the Mashed Potatoes".

 

[AnotherHiggins]

The medium allowed that person to be lazy without being fired.