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Why We Dumped Brightstore 3

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May 10, 2002
26
CA
Well after a year of trying to manage BrightstoreS Ver. 9 we've replaced it with Back Up Exec. 9

Since we purchased and installed Brightstore we have been plagued endless performance problems: Extremely low performance on Full and Incremental backups, database crashes and software failures.

We approached CA technical support with these problems shortly after. They asked us to perform a series tests to rule out network problems. When nothing suspect was found we were then told to look at the operating system configuration, again nothing suspect. CA‘s response was that it was something in our network. We explained to them that each server was multi-homed and all of the back up traffic was configured to go over a dedicated segment and that are network was not showing any bottle necks. Server to server copies of large data blocks was great. We went as far as connecting a cross-over cable between the back up server and a file server ran a back up job and found it was just as slow. CA asked us to verify the cable! I was, however, able to improve the through put on my own by resizing the TCP window sizes on each server. CA then offered some registry changes for the agents which made no difference.

Left with the current state of affairs we made the best out of a bad situation. Budget constraints did not allow for us to change software right away. We had to settle with 70hrs to back up 430GB of data and 21 hours on daily Incrementals. If that was not bad enough we then experienced a series of inexplicable database crashes, four in all, two in one month. We were spending 60% of the week just managing the back ups. Finally we had enough and called CA directly in New York hoping they could help us.

To my surprise the CA rep seemed to have already heard most of what I told her. Then she instructed me to write a strongly worded e-mail to her explaining our troubles and lack of help from technical support. She also told us that she would get back to us very soon. That was 2 months ago. We then approached our software vendor with the problems. They mentioned to us that their own engineers had received numerous complaints from clients using Brightstore. They suggested we try an evaluation version of Back Up Exec

With all of this information we decided to evaluate Back Up Exec. V.9. We selected several test servers, of which four showed the poorest performance with Brightstore; we installed the agents, rebooted and ran a back up job. We were amazed at the through put! Servers that backed up at 100mb/per minute with Brightstore were now running at 300+mb/per min. Our Exchange jobs including Brick Level, which are generally slow, showed a dramatic increase in speed: with BS Brick level was 30mb/per minute. BE produced speeds between 60mb/per min to 100mb/per min!

The big test came when we created a full GFS rotation job that included all of our production servers and a couple development servers, about 30 in all. We started the job on a Friday evening. From the start the speed was incredible. The job completed in just under 24 hours! We actually cut 45hrs off the time were getting from Brightstore. The second test would be the Incremental job. The following Monday at 5PM the Incremental job started. Again the speed was incredible. We saw 450 mb/per min on servers that showed 30 to 60 mb/per min with Brightstore. While there were fluctuations in the through put, all servers generally backed up 3 times faster using Back Up Exec. The Incremental job finished in 4 hours, instead of 17hrs with Brightstore.

In conclusion I have nothing but praise for Veritas. Their technical support is excellent, Help menus and knowledge base entries are exact and very detailed. The reporting functionality alone sold the product. I wish I could say the same for CA’s Brightstore. From everything we’ve experienced it seems that Brightstore is a defective product. Contrary to their ads this product is not designed for every environment. While others have reported good performance using Brightstore a majority of the people I’ve talked to have experienced the same issues that we have had in varying degrees. The technical support for this product is a disaster. We never had a sense that any of the help we were getting was based on research. We were dealt a slew of excuses ranging from antivirus to faulty network equipment.

In closing the only advice I can give is the fllowing: if you are planning to upgrade or invest in a back up solution avoid Brightstore.



 
Say no more... I was considering arcserve but I currently use Veritas. I guess I'm sticking with Veritas!

Thanks
 
May I ask how you handle Disaster Recovery of workstations with Veritas? My understanding of Veritas DR, that it is only supported on Servers.

We currently use Arcserve 2000, and we are looking to upgrade. I have been working with the latest version of Arcserve, and it's been a hard road. I can't get the disaster recovery process to even work, and CA has been no help!

I also downloaded a trial of BackupExec, and I agree, the through-put it much higher than Arcserve.

 
I just "helped" [nosmiley] my company to choose the CA's BEB 10.0 for a 10-site, 180+ server / 10-library backup solution (still implementing by a SI).

I¡¦ve evaluated the Veritas NetBackup. Why I choose BEB? Only one thing -- $$$.

I think NetBackup only lose to BEB in two areas:
1. The BMR/DR (I require both backup server and clients) solution is too sophisticated (ie. expensive)
2. Overall speaking, much more expensive than BEB. (40%+ in our situation).
 
I'm no great fan of ARCserve/BrightStor but I think the problem is the industry segment itself rather than certain products. Veritas has a huge number of detractors as well (and recently have had some shocking bugs causing sever reboots etc).

I just think for such a critical area of business the software available (at least to small-medium business) is crap. Full of bugs, poor design, poor technical support. I'm sure if someone came along with a properly supported, stable product they'd gain market share quickly - I'd certainly recommend we switch (and we have 120+ servers).

In terms of throughputs you experienced though - they do seem unusally low and a lot lower than we experience with our BrightStor network backups.
 
Sounds like an Ad for Veritas to me. Nightwatch you getting a kickback ;-)

To be honest the trouble I have had with Arcserv and multi drive tape libraries I too am looking for an alternative. I have used both Backup Exec and Arcserv in single drive setups and both work well. I do however prefer Backup Exec.

I have had good expirences with Backup Exec however is it any good with multi drive tape libraries or am I in for another Arcserv type troublesome product ?
 
CokeandSushi,

I have worked with ARCserve with lots of different tape lib raries, both single and multiple drive and, although every library has different functionality, most of the times it works out fine
 
I've used arcserve also on multiple drives, in fact, I had it running on an older EXB-440 library with 4 drives and it was great.

Concerning Brightstore; I'm in no way trying to sell Veritas. I figure that I have a right to atleast inform others of the issues that I've had with BS. I really wish that it had worked as it was advertised. I've heard from people that say it works great for them. I'm happy to hear that. It's just that the lack of support from CA and the endless scripted answers from their Tech Support staff just did not cut it anymore. I'm tired of giving my money away then having to explain myself at budget time.

Good Luck

 
I, too, use BrightStor EB 10.0 for our enterprise backup needs, and I have to agree that overall it has been a big headache getting the bugs worked out. I have always had great throughput when backing up our midrange systems, but I have had tons of problems backing up or 25-30 Netware servers. Very slow speeds, even after numerous client changes and configurations changes. Currently, I'm getting my best performance with the old Arcserve 7.0 client. I've received some weird answers from support with some of my issues, and have worked through most of the problems myself with trial and error. I have to admit though that ouir DR testing has always been great...which covers my tail! lol

 
I totally agree with eveything you say, I,ve been having similar probs with bstor 9 for netware. Backuo exec 9.1 was up and running within 10 minutes on my san with similar throughputs as you have. Arcserve is just amazing how many bugs and patches too. Tech support is awful, bad idea having it in India too, I,m far from racist(one of my best friends is asian) but I struggled to understand what they said, they just follow idiot sheets and asked me if I,d tried restarting the server. Do they think theyre dealing with idiots.

 
FWIW the only way I've found to make BrightStor (or arcserve) useful is to run in on a spare server that does nothing but run backups. That way, if something gets messed up, I don't call CA for support (as someone said I already know what they are going to say - blah blah blah . . ."and then reboot the server").

So I reboot the server, and if things are really bad I uninstall/reinstall the app. The only downside I know is that you do have to figure in how long it will take to remerge a tape should something bad happen right after you wipe the install.

Of course the less charitable might be inclined to point out that such steps are a bit much.

 
I don't understand why it takes so long to backup your servers ("70hrs to back up 430GB of data and 21 hours on daily Incrementals" (Nightwatch)). I backup over 2TB in less than 50 hours and the Incrementals in less than 8 hours. I use a great library with 41 slots and 2 AIT3 drives. My be you should look into using AIT if you're not. They seem to work better.
This is done using BrightStor V.9. Don't get me wrong, I do have problems with CA at time but my backups nerver take that long.
 
I agree with wetmore1. We are in the process of purchasing a new storage unit using AIT3 drives, backing up 9 servers, including Exchange brick-level backup of 900 mailboxes nightly. Currently we are using DLT8000 drives. The only experience I have with CA is their Tech Support, if you push them hard enough, you'll get better service. I'm staying with Brightstor, it's much easier to use.

 
The only problem I have now is a error ("E3392: Backup server TCP reconnection timeout." ). This is from my Exchange server. It only happens when I backup the Registry.
Like I said before, If you use AIT2 or AIT3 tapes and drives, the backup goes better. I say use Sony tapes and Sony drives because I haven't had any problems using them. Most of you may know, DLT is slower and hold less data than AIT. BrightStor V.9 is much better than the older versions (less problem, less errors, and easier to use).
 
Hold on there! I have AIT 3, Brightstor 11, and NOTHING BUT TROUBLE! Throughput is terrible. I'm staring at a job that used to take 1 hour, and it's been running 8, and is only halfway done. This AFTER I applied all the patches CA recommended. I've messed with everything from the Adaptec SCSI, to the OS, to the tape lib firmware.

I'm dumping this product first budget opportunity!

 
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