Why I hate dealing with recruiters... 1

[imterpsfan3]

Some may find this story funny... so I thought I would post it.

I have been looking for a job for about a month. I have a job now, but am looking for a new challenge.

I was called by a recruiter looking for a developer. He listed the job qualifications as VB 6.0, ASP, COM, DCOM, HMTL, DHMTL.

I was told I would have a phone screen for this job, so I prepped myself naturally on these technologies.

Lo and behold, the phone interview begins, and I find out that they are looking for a senior-level asp.net/vb.net developer. No questions were asked about the above technologies. I tried to handle myself as well as possible on the ASP.NET questions, but I would rate myself as mid-level, not senior.

I didn't answer all the questions correctly. I think I missed a few. Hence I didn't get the job.

Afterwards I was furious because this recruiter had given me information about a different job!

Unfortunately there doesn't seem to be a place for mid-level .Net developers. They either want a recent college graduate or someone who is an expert. I'm in between.

Also I find I freeze up in phone interviews. I know how to put an application together in ASP.NET and other technologies, but am not as good at explaining terminology. If that makes sense. I also freeze up in the sense that I know the answer but my brain locks up because of nervousness.

I have never enjoyed technical interviews. Most of the computer jobs I have gotten didn't require an exhaustive technical interview. I got it through networking or moving up the ladder.

It seems if you miss a question they are asking, you're history.

If any of you that are reading this post have been on the other side of the coin, as in being the one doing the interview, how do you feel when you ask technical questions that a person can't answer? Do you feel they are automatically ruled out or what?

Any feedback would be appreciated.

Microsoft Certified Solutions Developer -- Visual Basic 6
Microsoft Certified Applications Developer C# (in the works)

 

[jsaxe]

I've been looking for work in my field(telecom)for months - unfortunately I live in the Ozarks of upstate New York, where jobs are scarce.

One thing I've done is to study career-related websites for interview advice, like Monster.com. One thing that's vital for those of us who sweat interviews is to practice, practice, practice!

Check out your local department of Labor, Job Service, or One Stop Career Center and see if they give mock interviews. These services are free to the public and can be very helpful to you in finding your weaknesses. There are also several websites out there where there are sample interview questions, and appropriate answers. (Not that you should memorize answers & spew out pat responses)

jsaxe

"When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro."
Hunter S. Thompson (R.I.P. Doc)

 

[langleymass]

I have often said that if you want to find the dumbest people in any company, go to human resources. That being said, the ones who couldn't make it in human resources end up going to work for places like RHI Consulting, TekSystems, or whatever. These are the kind of embiciles you deal with when you deal with recruiters. And for some reason, they are the gatekeepers to many IT jobs.

It is probably the main reason why I tell kids my college freshmen nephew not to go into IT. I don't know of any other profession in which so much power is given to people who are stupid.

Sometimes the recruiters can get you a job by just sending you there. I got an eight-month contract without an interview. It's not an ideal job, and the job description was completely wrong. But it's definitely okay.

I have had recruiters make me late for interviews. I have had them lose my resume. They don't work for you. They also combine the ethics of salespeople with the brains of HR. You couldn't end up with a worse combination.

There is generally a high turnover in recruiter jobs. There are a few who know what they are doing, and they have been in the business for a while. Many of them took recruiter jobs because they couldn't get jobs anywhere else.

 

[ChrisHunt]

What is a recruiter's job? To find/prep/and assist me in other general ways to gain (insert job here).

Maybe things are different in the States, but on this side of the pond it's illegal for recruiters to charge applcants for their services. They're paid for by the employer. That means their job is to find suitable people for a particular position, not the other way round.

I don't know of any other profession in which so much power is given to people who are stupid.

How about politics?

-- Chris Hunt
Webmaster & Tragedian
Extra Connections Ltd

 

[chiph]

Maybe things are different in the States, but on this side of the pond it's illegal for recruiters to charge applcants for their services.

The custom is for the employer to pay, but it's not a legal requirement. There are recruiters out there that want fees in advance of any service. As you might expect, those are the ones you want to stay away from.

How about politics?

No argument here on this point!

Chip H.


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[willir]

Interesting thread.

Two things here -- recruiters and phone interviews.

Recruiters.
Everybody needs to make a living. Most people want the biggest bang for their buck. And then we have to consider the "other" forms of compensation such as vacation, bonuses, benefits.

The thing about a recruiter is if they are in the business long or short term. Most I would expect are in it for the short term. That being said, if a recruiter does not provide a good match, it will come back to haunt them -- they will not get repeat business, and they will always have to look for new business.

Lie's, con's, twisting the facts, arm twisting are short term answers. Honesty and concern are long term answers.

Telephone interviews.
Again, it costs money to interview. If you have a list of 20 candidates out of 1000 replies, would you want to fly each one to your city for an interview? Phone interviews make sense, but they have to done properly. There are certain objectives that need to be met such as technical abilities. But other things that should be reserved for the face-to-face interview such as salary.

Last year, I had a technical interview over the phone. It became very apparent during the interview that I was more technical than the technical reference. This proved to be awkward because I would be reporting to the technical person.

In the end, they offerred me the job and I turned them down for several reasons. One of the reasons was the potential conflict that could have occurred with me being more technical that the team lead.

 

[langleymass]

I like phone interviews and have generally done well with them. I don't have to worry about my clothes or my appearance. I can be in my underwear if I want to be.

And one piece of advice--stand up. You will sound better if you are standing up than if you are sitting down during your phone interview.

 

[svanels]

Huh?...

What about putting a chair on the table and sitting on it? Judges, kings and other authorities do the same, I think it brings out confidence/superiority

Steven

 

[chiph]

It's true. Standing up frees the diaphram to move, and you'll sound better during the conversation.

Chip H.


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[imterpsfan3]

I have trouble with phone interviews because I'm not able to look at the other person. It makes it seem very impersonal. I've always done better at in-person interviews. I find it very easy to be distracted during a phone interview. It's really hard to build any rapport with whom you are interviewing with as well.

As for recruiters, I have softened my stance on them. Dollie brought up some good points. However I feel they should become more technically oriented if they are dealing with IT jobs.

I'm sure it is difficult to screen candidates because there are so many and it's hard to determine if what they put on their resume is exaggerated.

As for interviews in general, I like the concept of ChipH where he would give the candidate a scenario and they would have to write some code. Obviously this doesn't fly for a phone interview.

Microsoft Certified Solutions Developer -- Visual Basic 6
Microsoft Certified Applications Developer C# (in the works)

 

[chiph]

As for interviews in general, I like the concept of ChipH where he would give the candidate a scenario and they would have to write some code. Obviously this doesn't fly for a phone interview.

Actually, what I try and do is show them some UML and some pre-written code and ask them to explain it back to me. It's a little tougher than writing code, in a way, as it requires you to get inside the head of the person who wrote it.

Chip H.


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[jaymaechtlen]

Well, a recruiter called me, helped me tune up my resume, and got me an interview.
The first and only interview was by phone. It got me a temp gig which turned into a perm job.
I have no problem recommending my recruiter or his company.
ymmv!

Jay

 

[imterpsfan3]

Good for you Jay...

I have to admit I enjoy interviews as much as root canals...lol

I have a phone interview this week and I probably should be thrilled, but I'm not. Because invariably they are going to ask me a question where I don't know the answer and then I'm history. Something on page 393 of a 1200 page book that 99% of the programmers out there wouldn't use in a regular application.

I no longer have any problems with recruiters. Their job is to sell. It's up to me after that to get hired. I'm a good programmer, but horrible in interviews, if that makes sense.

I've seen many a programmer hired who wasn't that great but was a great interviewer...



Microsoft Certified Solutions Developer -- Visual Basic 6
Microsoft Certified Applications Developer C# (in the works)

 

[Spirit]

Recruiters? Parasites ALL of them!

If you fail at being a second hand car sales man and then fail at being an estate agent become a "Recruitment Consultant".

I've been sent to some of the most inappropriate jobs possible. The parasite sent me for an analysts job when the only thing I analyse is my pay check (Tech Support you see).

Another one said "oh its perfect, fits your skill set exactly blah blah blah" so we set up a telephone interview and low and behold its an application support role like durrrrr!

Recruiters do not care about candidates just their 25% cut of the 1st years salary or 35% in the case above OUCH!

Its a numbers game a recruitment company will send as many candidates as possible in the hope that one of them is the MD's cousin or by pure frustration / necessity the Hiring Firm will hire the best of a bad bunch and the the recruiters.

Bleeding parasites......

Iain

P.S. If they fail at recruiters then they enter politics and if they fail there they'll get nice jobs in the European Parliment..... grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

 

[Dollie]

FYI: (Most) recruiters only get paid if the candidate is hired. If they are sending unqualified candidates to a job interview, the candidate most likely will not be hired and the recruiter will not get a paycheck.

If you're dealing with recruiters that take up to 35% of your annual salary, you may not be dealing with a legitimate company. Most consulting firms that have been around since before the dot.bomb era are more likely to send you on jobs you are qualified for as their recruiters actually know what they are doing. The recruiters get a fee from the company. That fee should not affect the candidate's pay at all.

The recruiters are not the only ones who should be checking qualifications.....

/end FYI

 

[svanels]

With the popularity of the Internet, also the con-artists are making havily use of the Internet.

People think that when someone has an e-mail adress or a website, that it is an honest person, because it is on the internet

If I cannot see an office or any other bussiness activity, I don't thrust it.

Steven

 

[aquias]

Oh no Dollie, their legit. Actually, in this area, they're the leading placement firm for technical people. They are a VERY effective firm at finding a job, their just VERY slimey.

 

[MasterRacker]

Dollie, I don't think the recruiter was getting 35% of the candidates salary a tt he candidates expense, I think they meant that the separate fee was calculated as 35% of the placement salary. A fee based on salary instaead of a flat fee gives the recruiter an incentive to place people as highly as they can.

The downside of course is that this also gives them an incentive to place people above their heads. Smart companies will negotiate that the recruiter does not get paid upon placement but instead only gets paid after the recruit has lasted a certain amount of time and is therefore "proven" to be a succesful placement.

[sub]Jeff
[purple]It's never too early to begin preparing for [/purple]International Talk Like a Pirate Day

"The software I buy sucks, The software I write sucks. It's time to give up and have a beer..." - Me[/sub]

 

[jaymaechtlen]

have to admit I enjoy interviews as much as root canals...lol

I have a phone interview this week and I probably should be thrilled, but I'm not. Because invariably they are going to ask me a question where I don't know the answer and then I'm history. Something on page 393 of a 1200 page book that 99% of the programmers out there wouldn't use in a regular application."

come on- it isn't being an encyclopedia, it is having a solid foundation and knowing how to quickly find the information and use it well!
The interview can cut both ways, too.
You want to determine if you want to work for them!
Good luck?
no, not luck- stay cool, smile, have some fun!
break a leg!
Jay