Why do we retain managers who know nothing? 5

[MISCHICK1]

Okay. I know all of us types are getting laid-off left and right but I want to know why we retain MIS Managers who know nothing technically, and are bad managers? Yes, we call our manager "Smack."

He had a great resume but gives me instructions such as "Build a new RAS server and also configure it as the company FTP server," and "I don't know how to install the CAL on the Terminal Server, you do it." Ah. HELLO, this is not rocket science!!!!!

He also takes 4 hour lunch breaks and after cisco switches and things get into his little hands they suddenly disappear. Not to mention that he is verbally and physically abusive toward me and my co-worker (yes, females in a male dominated area).

My team wants him out, but our director for some reason is keeping him here. I don't know why. Any advice?

 

[MISCHICK1]

ooops I meant MCSE...bad typing

 

[heyitsthephoneguy]

Well MISCHICK1

If it's not an exageration, does your company have a HR department? That's where I would head (although I would suggest not getting into this man's IT knowledge...it compromises the core complaint...the abuse). If you don't have a HR department, I would consider outside alternatives (Lawyer, Law Enforcement).

Good Luck

 

[johncurtis]

Hi all

I guess I better clarify what I meant. There are two issues here. If there's a problem with the guy's work then you should talk to him first. I agree that there is a chain of command for a good reason.
I was more concerned about the other things that were mentioned, particularly "he is verbally and physically abusive toward me and my co-worker" and "Our manager spends his time coming in with hangovers at 10:00am, taking 3 hour lunch breaks and leaving at 4:00pm in order to get ready to go clubbing. We are here from 7:00am to about 8:00pm and on many weekends." These are not issues that can be tolerated. Later posts make it clear that timekeeping is not the big issue here; you're being abused and you should try everything in your power to make it stop. Not always easy I know.

MISCHICK1, please take heyitsthephoneyguy's advice. Take the matter of abuse as high as you need to to get some action.

Hope it works out
John

 

[heyitsthephoneguy]

"If there's a problem with the guy's work then you should talk to him first."

I don't agree with that statement. I don't feel employees should be critiquing their manager's work habits. It will only add friction to your working relationship. Maybe you only see your manager for 6 hours but he telecommutes for 2-4 hours at night? You don't know...and it's not your job to know. Instead of spending time wondering where your boss is, spend it enriching your knowledge. Trust me, you'll be better off in the long run.

"These are not issues that can be tolerated"

They will have to be tolerated as long as the manager's supervisor does nothing about it. It is not the underlings job to supervise their supervisor.

 

[CajunCenturion]

so-and-so threatened to punch me in the face with a hub" and "he put his hands around my neck and pretended to choke me". I have to admit that when I first read that, I thought it was somewhat tongue-in-cheek, or an exaggeration. but such is not the case.

That kind of behavior should not be tolerated. Incompetance, laziness, being a jerk, etc are one thing, but this type of abuse is clearly over the line.

You manager is the culprit, your director either can't or won't help, and I'm not sure that you'd get much help from the CEO either. You've already been labelled a trouble maker, so I doubt you'd have much success in correcting the problem from the inside.

My advice - Find another job (you and your associate) and get out of Dodge. If you want to take legal action, then you need to have a documentation trail in place. Document on paper, the who, what, where, and when of each and every incident. Also document each and every time that you brought any incident to the attention to your director and other higher-ups. With the documentation in hand, go to the authorities, or go to a attorney and bring a civil suit for damanges. Personally, I hope that you bring them down. Good Luck
--------------
As a circle of light increases so does the circumference of darkness around it. - Albert Einstein

 

[johncurtis]

heyitsthephoneyguy,

"If there's a problem with the guy's work then you should talk to him first."

I guess we don't agree on these things! If employees can't comment on their supervisors' work habits then how can anything change? I'm the supervisor of a team and not only do I believe that they can comment on my work (good or bad) I encourage them to do so. An effective and happy place to work is one where there is dialogue between all workers. Just because I'm the supervisor it doesn't mean that I know best in all issues. I take your point that someone working only 3 or 4 hours at work doesn't mean that they don't work at home, but if you can't talk about it then how do you know the truth?

"Instead of spending time wondering where your boss is, spend it enriching your knowledge."

I'm all for enriching knowledge. I don't see a conflict between this and effective team work and dialogue.

"These are not issues that can be tolerated"

Verbal and physical abuse should never be tolerated. It doesn't matter whether it's your colleague, supervisor, CEO, or spouse for that matter. It's a basic human right.

John

 

[heyitsthephoneguy]

"If there's a problem with the guy's work then you should talk to him first."

I guess we don't agree on these things! If employees can't comment on their supervisors' work habits then how can anything change? I'm the supervisor of a team and not only do I believe that they can comment on my work (good or bad) I encourage them to do so. An effective and happy place to work is one where there is dialogue between all workers. Just because I'm the supervisor it doesn't mean that I know best in all issues. I take your point that someone working only 3 or 4 hours at work doesn't mean that they don't work at home, but if you can't talk about it then how do you know the truth?

We'll agree to disagree

How far up the chain do you go before you stop complaining about your manager? Do you go above the director to the president? What if he sides with the manager...do you go to the CEO? What if he sides with the manager...do you go to the stock holders?

If you answered yes to any of the above, how long do you think you'll remain employeed with the company? Do you think the CEO has time (much less the interest) to hear your complaints about how your boss doesn't work his full shifts?

Any why stop there...let's complain that the CEO spends more time on the golf course than in the board room. And the president of the company...he's never in the office. He must be playing hookey a lot. Let's report them.

It doesn't work when the inmates try to run the assylum. A Vice President should not have to account to the help desk analyst why he's never in the office. Just like a manager should not have to account to his underlings where & when he works. The people in these positions have someone to answer to....their supervisors.

You're not fostering teamwork when you encourage your employees to run to the director when the manager does something they don't agree with. You're fostering disentian, deciet, & power struggles.

P.S. Do your employees share in the ramifications of decisions made? If something goes wrong will the company cut the entire team?

(DISCLAIMER: I hope my feelings about the Abuse indicated in previous posts above are clear from my previous responses...this post relates to employees playing watchdog over their manager's habits & work schedules.)

 

[JuanDelegator]

We have that problem. Managers who cannot manage, are no longer technical, and do nothing but dial into conference calls and ask you to fill out your quarterly review.

Worthless than less.

I am dilbert. Really, the more I read from his books/strips the more I get scared.

All managers are pointy haired. I think there are a few who can do the job, but in my experience they are clueless and not cut out for the job. LACK OF LEADERSHIP SKILLS.

Their level of incompetance can play to your benefit, but unfortunately you have co-workers who are just as clueless who cause you to have an extra burden. That's the frustrating part.

Good luck, and if you want to vent more about piss poor managers (which I am convinced big business is full of), then please feel free to personally email me.

Juan Delegator

 

[Albion]

MISCHICK1

This isn't a difficult problem to solve. If you have enough confidence in your ability as an IT person then you have nothing to worry about. If this guy isn't performing up to his duties and it's putting unnecessary stress around your neck, then why stick around? Put in your resignation and express your reason for leaving. Your director is probably thinking, "Well if it were that bad then she'd quit, so obviously it isn't."

If nothing gets done about it you don't have to worry because you'll be in another position at another job. If something does get done about it then you're happy because they will at least monitor this guy more often to see what the problem is. Either way you're better off.

As for the physical abuse you mentioned, the best solution, again, is to leave. Bringing it to the attention of the authorities is just going to be detrimental to you. I've seen to many companies fire (or force quit) both parties in situations like that because they don't want the negative publicity.

In the end it comes down to one thing. If you’re not happy in your position simply leave and get another job. What you really need to ask yourself is this, “What worse… Getting pushed around and stressed out by some idiot manager or the fear of stepping into the unknown?” If you’re too afraid to quit your job because you might not find another, for whatever reason (bad economy, lack of skills, low self-esteem, etc…), then you lack the confidence in yourself that is required to get another. If this is the case then you might as well stick with the abuse that you’re incurring from your manager because it will never stop.

-al

 

[heyitsthephoneguy]

YIKES!

"As for the physical abuse you mentioned, the best solution, again, is to leave. Bringing it to the attention of the authorities is just going to be detrimental to you. I've seen to many companies fire (or force quit) both parties in situations like that because they don't want the negative publicity."

If MISCHICK obtained a lawyer, I'd like to see any company try that, never mind in this day and age of corperate misconduct all over the headlines.

In the end it comes down to one thing. If you’re not happy in your position simply leave and get another job. What you really need to ask yourself is this, “What worse… Getting pushed around and stressed out by some idiot manager or the fear of stepping into the unknown?” If you’re too afraid to quit your job because you might not find another, for whatever reason (bad economy, lack of skills, low self-esteem, etc…), then you lack the confidence in yourself that is required to get another. If this is the case then you might as well stick with the abuse that you’re incurring from your manager because it will never stop

Did MISCHICK's boss find this forum? Telling someone to stay and do nothing about a situation of physical abuse because they can't find another job (for whatever reason) is not only bad advice, it's retarded.

Al, I'm glad you have self confidence..not everyone does. I'm glad you don't have bills since you can just quit your job whenever you wish, but not everyone does.