Why can't I get rid of WINS??

[AV1611]

I uncheck select Netbios over TCP/IP and all of the sudden I can't see anyone on my Network. I have Wins enabled on the Server, but no one on the Network uses Wins. Everyone uses DNS. Or are they.... How in the world can I tell?? Could this be all my problems with things not showing up in Active Directory??

PLEASE HELP.....

AV

 

[sluice]

Have you checked whether DHCP is automatically updating DNS records?

 

[AV1611]

No...How would I do that? I have DHCP enabled but all of my machines are running on a static IP. I only have DHCP for anyone visiting the site. Could all these running together be causing my problems??

Thanks in advance, AV

 

[buddafish]

you will need to manage any / all of your static ip clients, printers, ect. have you added them to your dns forward and reverse zones ? if you have a wins server active, you will need to give the clients the address in the tcpip properties. dhcp is great for passing out this info and more for clients. beats going desk to desk and keeping a list of addresses in use. just another way to ease network management...

wins is still needed with w2k, unless you are in a pure native w2k network.

scottie

 

[svsawkar]

Actually it doesn't matter if you are in a pure W2k networking- you will still need WINS/NETBIOS for certain operations.

W/O WINS, there will be no browsing and there will be no connectivity to downlevel domain trusts. We can be in native mode and still trust and be trusted by an NT4 domain.

/Siddharth

 

[AV1611]

So in order for my printer to show in AD I would have to add it to DNS??

Also, I killed WINS and I couldn't browse a lick. So of course I put it back. I guess thats what I get for following one of those books that tells you how everything should run but not exactly how it does. I was also under the impression that I could get rid of Netbios and WINS in a 2k only environment.

AV

 

[minxca]

Hi AV,

here is how W2K works when browsing:
localhost, host file, DNS, cache, WINS, broadcast.
Siddharth is right, you still need WINS.

Why do you use static IP Address? Use dynamic so you don't need add manually to your DNS.

 

[buddafish]

AV,

for the record, i have a testlab that has only w2k and xp pro. tcp/ip only. no applications using netbios name resolution. works great. and i can browse the network...


on the other-hand, my production network requires that i maintain 4 WINS servers. lots of legacy apps, ect. this is a w2k network, but as is often discussed, in the real world, WINS will still be necessary in a windows 2000 network.

 

[svsawkar]

So you have stoped the TCP/IP Over Netbios Helper Service on all machine?

/Siddharth

 

[dholbrook]

Winto says: "here is how W2K works when browsing:
localhost, host file, DNS, cache, WINS, broadcast.
Siddharth is right, you still need WINS."

Absolutely right on! Note the order, and if you do not have the inforamtion in DNS, then your system will try WINS then broadcast (read: Netbios!). Without the WINS, following no DNS result, and no netbios, your browser will totally fail, so guess what, your system is functioning exactly as designed!

I agree, put your users (except servers) on DHCP so the DNS will work as designed, and you network should function smoothly. Remember that DNS while now a dynamic process, gets input from DHCP and still needs static information entered manually, unless the static systems are set to advertise themselves to the DNS server. However, static systems usually announce themselves when they initially boot up, so users that do not turn off their systems do not provide this information if they were on before the DNS system (chicken and egg problem!).

Also, turning off NetBios over TCP/IP can kill you if you have if you have any application that needs it.

I recommend having WINS active, especially if you have traveling users who just might still have WIN98 or NT on their systems, as they do not operate without it. WINS also provides an operational safety net when you get DNS issues (especially a crashed DNS server).

HTH

David

 

[AV1611]

Svsawkar, No I didn't stop the TCP/IP Over Netbios Helper Service on all machines, only a few and the Server to see what happens.

dholbrook, winoto, svsawkar, & binkin...

If thats the order then something isn't right with my DNS server because I have a record for all machines in DNS yet it wasn't browsing at all when I killed the Netbios over TCP/IP.

Also I put all the machines on Static because I have about 6 that have to have static. They run an App in the background that a Dicom sends images too from a Pacs or Redhat7.3 machine.

I thought going one thing all together would be faster than a multi-cultured network. Would the suggestion be to go DHCP where I can and leave those that have to be TCP/IP that way? And how would this affect DNS?

Also what do I need to make sure is setup for DHCP and DNS to talk properly?

Thanks all...AV

 

[minxca]

try nslookup

 

[buddafish]

AV,

here's my take on a few of your questions from the last post.

Is your DNS setup correctly... per winoto...nslookup is a good tool to start with. ipconfig/all on your machines to make certain they have valid DNS server addresses. Make certain your DNS server is UP... Check for valid Host records.

if ya want to change things around and make the future easier on yourself and others, use DHCP. set that up correctly, wizard works for this one.
go to the properties of the DHCP server, open the DNS tab and check Auto Update..., Always Update..., Discard Expired..., Enable Updates for down level clients...
Set your scope options to hand out DNS, WINS, Domain Name, ect. keep the WINS. aside from the manual maintainence, it will most likely not effect your network performance. (although it sounds like it did WITHOUT it...LOL )

Create Reservations for those machines that need it.

there is a ton of info on line how to setup the basic infrastructure for w2k networks. i purchased a copy of Mark Minasi's Mastering Windows 2000 Server a few years ago while earning my mcse. personally, i think a great read, good info on ALL topics related to working with a w2k network.

just what's workin' for me

best of luck

scottie

 

[hdingman]

Have your cake and eat it too - use Reservations with DHCP!

I do this on all the networks I can, set the workstations to DHCP, and manage the IP addresses by setting up reservations for each MAC address. To the users, it's the same as static IP, they'll always get the same one, but you can administer all DNS/settings/whatever from a single point, and it's easy to push changes out once they're made. Also, it's a lot easier to troubleshoot problems with static IPs, so when an IP shows up in an error log, it's simple to find the offender.

With DHCP reservations, you also know every workstation has the correct DNS info, and the server handles all the DNS/DHCP interaction details.

BTW, I also set up a specific block of IPs for "wild" equipment - on the network but unauthorized, and I monitor those 5 IPs. If I'm setting up a new machine, I expect it to come up, but if one comes up unexpectedly, I go looking for who bought a new toy without asking...

Howard Dingman
Pro-Tel Communications
Endicott, NY

 

[AV1611]

Ok.... I guess I am learning all over again. I always thought that DHCP and WINS and all these Old folks slowed down the Net with much bandwidth taken up.

Anyway, Hdingman.... & others... What would you all suggest as a play by play plan of action to get myself back in line? You know... 1. DHCP workstations... 2. etc...

AV
Thanks for the help guys.

 

[buddafish]

AV,
my last post listed the values to set with your DHCP server.
howard's suggestion of exclusion ranges is very valid. myself, i have several ranges excluded. printers, routers, switches, ect... outline your network addressing on a spreadsheet or something and create blocks for exclusions, then after you create a scope for your ip range, create the exclusions and then reservations (you'll need the mac address of the machines for reservations) and then set the scope options for DNS, WINS, Domain Name... once your DHCP server is set up you will need to authorize it in AD. (check the Action menu) once it is authorized, it should start. then you will need to change your clients tcp/ip properties to obtian ip address automatic.

most of your general w2k books cover setting up the basic infrastructure of the network. DHCP and WINS are very much the same as in NT. DNS is worth reading into but the basic setup is simple. it should (could) work just using the wizards... glean the web and tech-net, microsoft site, ect for in depth info on these services.

best of luck

scottie