Which technology to learn? 2

[techninut]

I have to choose my training for my company for server side web programming. As of now, I already am familiar with a little coldfusion. However, being that I am allowed to choose (per my company)anything, I was wondering if anyone could advise on maybe the pros and cons of which technology would be best to learn for the long term. Such as PHP, ASP.NET, coldfusion, etc. etc. I really have little programming knowledge so I want to make the right choice with the right technology. ( I know Javascript) but really nothing about server side technologies. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

- David

 

[deecee]

honestly if your company can afford then i would always stick with asp.net (i know nothing of it programming wise) but remember it might be MS but you cannot bet against them. PHP is pretty straight forward and gets most things you would want done and is the cheapest of all (FREE).

But if anyone would give me a choice and offer to pay for me to learn a server side language I WOULD LEARN ASP.NET. The world is run on Microsoft and Windows (anyone who argues for Linux -- is arguing a loosing battle) here is why -- MS has about 30 billion dollars just in savings and investments that is can do whatever it wants with. Linux maybe $30. Im not saying Linux is bad but look at it from a business point of view -- Dont go up against Goliath because this aint no fairytale. Most business - that make good money at least (remeber i said most) - use Windows based systems. ASP.NET and VBScript are here until someone knocks MS off their pedestal but honestly that isnt going to happen. Im not a programming purist (I go where the money is) and the only reason i primarily am trying to learn PHP is because it is FREE and easier than ASP.NET.

Now i could be way off but remember MS is the house and you never lose to the house - EVER.

So have fun and if your company is paying then learn everything MS has to offer. I think being marketable to 75%+ of the worlds business (those that use MS at least) beats the other 25%.

<signature>
sometime you just gotta say &quot;WHAT THE @#*% !!&quot;
</signature>

 

[dwarfthrower]

As usual, deecee provides some very sound advice. If your company is willing to spring for ASP training, learn that. You can always download MYSQL and PHP for free at home and learn it in your own time.

 

[palbano]

deecee

Couldn't have said it better myself... well accept maybe for this part ([blue] MS is the house and you never lose to the house - EVER.[/blue])

Isn't it &quot;Nobody ever [red]beats[/red] the house&quot;

-pete

 

[RISTMO]

I learned PHP + MySQL very easily because I had decent js knowldge. I taught myself (with the help of an online friend and Tek-Tips) after a 6 month interenship. It was actually only supposed to last 4 weeks, but I got it extended....Well, I finished the PHP PDF report I was supposed to make (with no previous knowledge of php) in about 2 weeks and got paid for about 3 weeks of working on my own website! The deal was that as long as I did what they wanted from me and the rest of what I did was learning php and mysql, I could be paid for it :-D ;-). What I mean by this is that php is very easy and fast to learn. I think you could get a good grasp of it much faster than you could of ASP.NET, but that's the point. You could teach yourself at home in your free time (using Tek-Tips). I don't think you could learn ASP.NET nearly so easily (but I may be wrong--never tried it, only heard stories). If you were going to be paid to learn one instead of paying, I think ASP.NET is the way to go.

Rick

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[ChrisHunt]

deecee makes some strong points in support of ASP.NET, but it does rather depend on what you're going to use it on. Whilst I'd agree with the futility of backing Linux against Windows as a mass PC operating system, it's far less clear cut when it comes to servers. There is a MASSIVE number of Unix-based servers out there (Linux is one of many flavours of Unix), and ASP is going to be of limited use on them (AFAIK). If your company is using Unix servers, knowledge of PHP, Perl, etc. is going to be more useful.

-- Chris Hunt

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[RISTMO]

Are you saying that PHP can't be used on a Microsoft OS?

Rick

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[TruthInSatire]

PHP works on MS, however I believe it was more geared for unix systems and mysql. I would go with ASP.NET also. However, if you'd like to learn some power and cross platform compatiblity, why not Java Server Pages (JSP)? Java programmers are few and far between, very sought after and very well paid. Its just a thought. I personnal like CF above all other server side languages, however my next project is Java. Its more than borwser applets and server scripting its a full fledged language like C++, only more versitle, and versitility = $$$$

A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools.
- Quote by Douglas Adams

 

[palbano]

>> best to learn for the long term.

So there is the essential issue right? There really is no single answer to that question. I would guess that both Java (Servlets/JSP etc.) and ASP.NET will be extremely popular for the next few years.

If we were supplied with more criteria it could help to decide between the two. If you are OK with being limited to Microsoft shops then ASP.NET using Visual Studio as your development tool will be much more productive than the contending Java tools. And that rift will likely grow according to the history of Microsoft development tools.

They are both relatively similar in architecture. Garbage collected environment with access to the native OS layer so you can accomplish just about anything you need that is reasonable for a web application. Certainly the glaring differences are: Java runs on non MS platforms, ASP.NET you get to use the Visual Studio environment.


-pete

 

[techninut]

Thanks everyone for your help, it seems pretty clear that ASP.net is the way to go. The school I am going to says that a prerequisite for their ASP.NET introduction is some sort of programming. I am familiar with Javascript, so hopefully that will be enough where I am not drowning. As well I will be taking SQL introduction so I can incorporate DB into websites. I have tried teaching myself a little ASP.NET already and some JAVA, however I did not get very far on my own. I have been able to learn javascript and coldfusion on my own however, these languages I feel I need a little more hand holding with. Anyways, thanks for all the feedback from everybody !!!

-DSERGILE

 

[martinchivers]

Ignore DeeCee's biased remarks. Does he work for M$?

There are more Unix/Linux web servers out there (running apache and suchlike) than M$ ones

 

[deecee]

lol -- they dont make businesspeople like they used to

Why dont you throw linux around when you go to an average business and see their reaction versus Microsoft.

Apparently someone here has been in a cave and fails to understand the importance of advertising and marketing



<signature>
sometime you just gotta say &quot;WHAT THE @#*% !!&quot;
</signature>

 

[blueark]

I seem to remember a recent benchmark test that put ASP.NET paired off with SQL Server as the clear winner against the major competing technologies (in terms of performance). This was an independant test carried out by some reputable magazine, but naturally I've forgotten which one!

The downside, of course, is money. You can download the .NET framework, a desktop version of SQL Server and Web Matrix for free, which is great for practice. Real-world applications do need some investment, however, but many companies feel it's worth it. If your company is willing to pay, at least the benchmarks are on your side, so why not go for it? If MS fall tomorrow, you can learn something else for free.

 

[RoguePoet01]

If your company uses Microsoft server software, I'd learn ASP.

If they use Apache or one of the Unix hybrids, I think I'd focus on PHP.

Pesonally, I like the heck out of PHP.

I use PHP for personal stuff, and ASP at work.

 

[palbano]

>> I seem to remember a recent benchmark test .....

Make sure you read up on those benchmark test scenarios real well if you intend to put any stock in them. From what I have seen they are almost never performed in equal fashion. That is why for one that places RED as the winner you can find another the places GREEN as the winner.

The reason for this is in many of these tests the products are set up out of the box, then for one product there is a team of experts that tune it for max performance based on the test model, but not for the other product. Also, some claim that a neutral test model is not even possible, that the models themselves are biased towards a specific feature of a system. Since the test model bias may not be founded in any real world environment it is to some degree irrelevant.

Now how do you feel about benchmark testing?

However please, PLEASE don’t take consider my comments to be facts. I only read enough to convince me that the safest bet was to ignore them. I could actually be way off base. What I am suggesting is that if you desire to put any weight behind them you should do some research on the subject yourself.


-pete

 

[Foamcow]

PHP is easier to learn and IMVHO more powerful than ASP.

Apache webserver is the most used webserver on the net.

PHP can also run on MS servers. ASP is MS ONLY!

PHP is free.

The suggestion that you learn PHP in your own time is a good one. It's pretty straightforward to start with.
And it won't do you any harm at all to know more than one way to crack an egg.

I have gone into meetings and talked to stalwart MS clients about using PHP/MySQL. If you just drop it in their laps then they would probably run a mile. But if you educate them about it, and explain why 1 system is more suitable than another then they tend to go with the &quot;expert&quot;. After all, they don't really give a stuff HOW something works.. they simply want it to work.

Advertising and publicity also works both ways. How many scare stories do the general public get to hear about regarding the security of Linux and the Apache webserver?
Now how many times do you hear bad press about MicroSoft and it's products?

 

[blueark]

Yeah, you're probably right, and I know I'm very vague on the details, but consider the following:

1: The test was carried out independently, so no particular technology was being promoted.

2: ASP.NET is a very young technology, so if any team knew how to squeeze max performance out of a system, it's more likely going to be a team that's using a more mature technology, where optimisations have been tried and tested and improved.

I accept what you're saying about benchmarking, but as long as it's not carried out to promote a particular product, it's still useful information to know.

Another thing I remember was that when SQL Server was replaced with another database system, ASP.NET displayed only average performance, so obviously many optimisations are built in. That's not unusual : PHP is tuned to perform well with mySQL for example. However, it is something else to keep in mind. For non-database functions, it displayed excellent performance.

 

[iSeriesCodePoet]

This would be my suggestion.

Where I work, they are switching from JSP/Servlet to .NET (not sure which varity as I am a iSeries programmer) apparently because .NET is faster to develop in. .NET (or .NOT as some call it) is a Windows product running on Windows severs that WILL have to be patched and monitored daily for updates. Under Linux, I would say more weekly you would have to do that. I am saying this after looking at the most recent worms. I have yet to hear of a virus that takes over a linux network.

My suggestion is to look into JSP/Servlets or PHP. Both will run on a variety of servers (including my beloved iSeries (or AS/400)) and both can be developed without any cost for development tools (legally). So you are talking about languages that will run on 90% (plus) of the servers out there and its free. That is marketability. Why lock yourself into one platform? All that does is set you up for failure. If your company decides to completely switch platforms and you are up a creek without a paddle. Many AS400 guys had this happend to them, they either had to learn the new language or find a new job (but that is completely a different subject).

iSeriesCodePoet
iSeries Programmer/Lawson Software Administrator

http://www.koldark.net

See my progress to converting to linux.

http://linux.koldark.net

 

[lebisol]

if ur looking to pay for classes
then::
independent programmer = post by : iSeriesCodePoet
PHP and JSP/Servlets.

company sponsored: post by deecee
ASP +.NET

actually ASP is relatively easy and has A LOT of free resources while JSP is still somewhat hidden....
then again, it's not the tool it's the moneky behind it!
;-)
All the best!

> need more info?
:: don't click HERE ::

 

[iSeriesCodePoet]

I would still avoid a single platform language.

iSeriesCodePoet
iSeries Programmer/Lawson Software Administrator

http://www.koldark.net

See my progress to converting to linux.

http://linux.koldark.net