Which system would you recommend? 2

[WB5ITT]

For customers wanting to update their phone systems, which would the brain trust recommend? ESi is small to large but has some limitations...I personally like the BCMs but is Avaya still supporting them and releasing new software? IP Office is a nice small box...but have little experience on it (though I understand programming is pretty standard Avaya)...

Looking for phone systems for small to medium offices..Being able to do CO, PRI and maybe BRI though they are going away, IP and/or SIP trunking would be nice....and maybe IP remote phones as well..through traditional digital ones would be nice. I wish I could somehow reuse the old Rolmphones I have in storage as they are clean and user friendly..using a RP400 vs a ESi 48key phone, I like the look of the RP better...however, the 9200s I have in storage, while reliable but a PITA to program, are too large these days and also dont support CLID except via a PRI and that must come from a Class 4 tandem CO, not a Class 5 (DMS, 5ESS, etc) exchange CO....unless someone know HOW to do it....personally I think I could take a IAD/router and go from IP to ISDN PRI and feed the boxes but the IAD/router may cost more than its worth it and I dont know the difference in the PRI stream from Class 4 to 5...

Digium and Shoretel look nice (though the Shoretel looks an awful like a Nortel series!)...I have read some on the Digium since its Asterik and it looks like it can handle anything.

(BTW what is this new service from ATT called IPFlex? I hadn't heard of it until recently and was wondering is that their version of Verizon's FIOS, etc...though UVerse was going to be their next big thing....)

TIA
Chris

 

[Westi]

there are lots of threads here about the same question, might want to search for it and read all the info in them because it inflames hard debates about what is better every time this question is asked.

but as a general rule, find out if you want pure IP or digital or hybrid as some systems are better at one or the other and few are really good at it all. Check hardware cost but make sure that you know the licensing costs as they will kill you sometimes if you want more features.

Joe W.

FHandw, ACSS (SME), ACIS (SME)

http://convergednetworks.ca

“Quality is never an accident; it is always the result of high intention, sincere effort, intelligent direction and skillful execution; it represents the wise choice of many alternatives.”

 

[jrgood0852]

As Westi stated this is going to open up to a lot of oppinions. Most people lean towards the "biggies" such as Avaya, Cisco, Mitel, etc. See what others chime in with, weigh price and quality and take it from there. You should get a lot of replies. Thanks.

Always look out for the next guy because it may be you!

 

[GordonKapesMZ4]

Yes, this generally causes WAR on this site. All of the big players mentioned above are good. We all have our preferences. I tend to bleed Nortel blue and I am happy 2 companies (E-Metrotel Blue, Avaya Red) have decided to maintain the products and traditions. One bleeds Nortel blue excessively and the other bleeds Red....both are reputable options. The one advantage over the Blue is that you will eventually (works but is in testing) be able to run Nortel Meridian Digital (PBX) sets along with Norstar sets, and all IP sets on the same platform.

"Keep the Peace, Use RLS"

http://www.joetheucxguy.com

 

[intrigrant]

I will trigger it : buy a AVAYA IP Office, best buy for your money. (hey I am a AVAYA reseller oke?)

Define your needs, make a budget and ask different resellers who offers different brands to give you a fitting offer.
Ask for a live demo showing how they will fill in your needs, it has two purposes: 1 You can see if the offered system can do what you want and 2 you can see how skilled they are with the system, take someone with you who doesn't know a bit on the matter but not afraid to ask "stupid" questions.
That is the best advise I can give besides to buy a AVAYA IP Office.

 

[Splic3d]

AT&T's IPFlex ,from what I have run into seem that AT&T is using their network to provide networking service as well as sip to analog or PRI service in a combination for end users. I just recently changed a NEC key system customer from POTS lines to IPFlex. They provided networking service for several plants to their Corp. office and ported their local POTS to the AT&T router providing a min. of 6 lines (of witch they only needed and used 2).
As for the main question, customers are going to have to do their homework and vendors are going to have to provide all the answers to flex-ability and support of their products. I've installed or worked with vendors of all of the systems mentioned so far. I can not fault any of them. Support and knowledge of the products are going to be keys for customer to make their choices.

http://www.i3techgroup.com

If its not working, get a bigger hammer!

Avaya/Nortel/NEC/Asterisk/Access Control/CCTV/DSX/Acti/UCx

 

[jrgood0852]

Another point is that a lot of firms go with a hosted solution these days. Just throwing that out there. Thanks.

Always look out for the next guy because it may be you!

 

[phoneguy610]

We sell mainly avaya and hosted .... It's completely based on the customer.some people are perfect for hosted, some I wouldn't even bring it up. It mainly depends on your internal network and available bandwith.

Best thing to do is bring a vendor in that offers both. This way you get an unbiased opinion on what fits you best.

You can get the best of both worlds by using an avaya ip office with sip trunks

ddcommllc.com
Avaya/Toshiba/SyntelSolutions

ACIS

"Will work for stars

 

[JBRAM]

We install Nortel, Avaya, ESI, as well as a Hosted solution out of our soft-switch. I personally prefer the ESI for 90% of our customer base. I agree with phoneguy610 on the Hosted solution--it either fits or it doesn't.

 

[jrgood0852]

JBRAM....I am not familiar with ESI. Can you detail it a little? Thanks.

Always look out for the next guy because it may be you!

 

[Sympology]

Let's flip this on it head.
For starters, don't rule out the smaller players, such as Aastra and Vertical who offer a heck more for your money than the big players, but find out how long they have been around and what their finances are like.
Firstly what do you want NOW and in 2 years. You may think, I need to supoprt BRI, but if that feature is going to cost you 2K to add, just for a year or two, is it actually worth it?
Do you want IM, mobile (cell) twinning, video, exchange / ad intergration, contact lists, phonebooks, speed dials, basic hunt groups or queues, do you want the whole lot to act as a single instance or as individual stand alone systems and on and on. Draw this complete list up 1st.
Are those features included in the purchase price? If not how much extra.
How much is support and maintenance and what does it REALLY cover.
Will keeping old handsets actually cost you more to use than replace?
How much ARE handsets for the system, a decent IP Phone can range from about £60 to £300 (or dollars) or more.
Do you NEED that full colour 50 button phone the rep will try and sell you?
And who is going to do the day to day stuff? Adds, moves and changes. How easy is it to do?
How much nitty gritty stuff wil you be able to do yourself?
Will they factor this in when designing a support package?
How easy is it to get hold of a techie, and not a call logger?
When they demo, ask for a tecnical guy to come along, not just a sales rep.
Feel free to try and find issues with the system and tear that problem apart.
Ask to see a roadmap.
The more questions you ask, the more critical you are of the system, the more likely you are to get past a pretty powerpoint and sales smile and find out actually what you want to know.


Robert Wilensky:
We've all heard that a million monkeys banging on a million typewriters will eventually reproduce the entire works of Shakespeare. Now, thanks to the Internet, we know this is not true.

http://alvechurchlounge.org.uk

 

[phoneguy610]

hey, our powerpoint is way prettier then most

ddcommllc.com
Avaya/Toshiba/SyntelSolutions

ACIS

"Will work for stars

 

[JBRAM]

jrgood0582- The system I am about to talk about is the Communication Server product line (ESI-50, ESI-100, ESI-200, ESI-600, & ESI-1000). The ESI can be bought in configurations from 4 CO lines x 8 Digital Stations x 2 Analog Stations up to a system with the capacity to hold 10 PRI cards and over 800 extensions. You can do a complete IP based system with SIP Trunks and IP phones or a hybrid type system with IP phones, Digital phones, and Analog Stations. It is very user friendly and the voicemail is integrated. Voicemail can be configured from 4 ports up to 128 ports. The Auto-Attendant has up to 100 branches that can be used. The voicemail is very easy to setup and the most user friendly of any system I have ever seen. We also have the option to purchase a 5 year parts replacement warranty for a very, very small fee. We have never been rejected on a replacement part. We call in directly to ESI and give them a serial number and they will ship a replacement for free next day. Tech Support is also great...speak direct with ESI.

They only have about 4 different phone models and the only color is black.

One of my biggest complaints is the process of making a number exchange or DN swap (ex: changing extension 1000 to extension 3250). We do this a lot to match extension numbers to DIDs numbers. To do this the system has to be completely idle. Idle as in not even a handset can be off-hook or the extension number exchange may not go through. This is problematic if you have a business that is 24x7 and phone service is critical.

All in all it fits in the vast majority of our customer's applications. It is also pretty well priced.

 

[intrigrant]

And pretty unknown, what if the installing company goes bankrupted, are there more ressellers supporting that system in the area?

 

[JBRAM]

ESI resellers are not hard to find. Not as easy as some of the other systems though. Not an issue here we have been in business for over 100 years and ESI has been at for 2 to 3 decades or so. The availability of support is an important consideration for customers though. If that ever becomes a sticking point with ESI I suppose we will just quote Avaya and let them they find one hundreds of other Tom, Dick, and Harrys to work on it if they have issues with us.

Another important thing to consider is TCO. It has been our experience that some solutions cost more to maintain over its lifespan than other solutions.

 

[jrgood0852]

Thanks, JBRAM.............sounds cool!

Always look out for the next guy because it may be you!

 

[Westi]

I have seen a lot of systems in my 29 years, never an ESI though. Do you guys also sell into Canada?



Joe W.

FHandw, ACSS (SME), ACIS (SME)

http://convergednetworks.ca

“This is the end of the world, make sure to buy your T-shirt before it is too late"
Original expression of my daughter

 

[intrigrant]

Google drops me in Angola... of all places...

 

[GordonKapesMZ4]

look at the Emetrotel UCx.....

"Keep the Peace, Use RLS"

http://www.joetheucxguy.com

 

[phoneguy610]

look at the avaya ip office...

ddcommllc.com
Avaya/Toshiba/SyntelSolutions

ACIS

"Will work for stars