Which phone system do you own? Pros & Cons 6

[mrdon515]

We are looking for a new phone system. We have 15 locations and approx 250 users. I have read a number of threads about what people recommend. So far I am planning on looking at these 4 solutions: Avaya, Cisco, ShoreTel, Digium. I know every system has it's good and bad.

What system do you have and what are the Pros & Cons for it? (Ease of use, Cost, Disaster Recovery, Features, Apps, Expansion, Support, Reporting, etc.)

Thanks,
Brandon

 

[phoneguy610]

just looked up that telecity thing, that was a data center outage. Most voip vendors have failover servers in multiple other data centers for that exact reason. Although our primary DC has never had an outage, if it did our clients wouldnt even know there was an issue

 

[Apersons]

Go with NEC. No doubt. The SL1100 can be networked so that all your pbx systems can communicate. You can install a VOIP card and use SIP trunking for lower cost on your phone lines. NEC systems are easy to use and extremely reliable.

http://www.sl1100.com

 

[joe2938]

hosted con is you pay for the system forever, you are better off with an IP Office with a voicemail pro, it will grow as your business does and with a goon vendor it is a good investment. Say no to hosted systems

 

[Apersons]

I agree with Joe. Do not go with hosted systems. I am a big fan of having PBX boxes on site. This way, if there is a service issue or a programming problem, you don't takedown a bunch of sites at the same time. And different sites can have calls route and be answered in a variety of ways if desired. you might consider a VOIP system made by Fortivoice. Their enterprise system are easy to troubleshoot and install. Keep the right support contracts up to date and you can get great support from the NTAC guys. Avaya is a good, reliable, long lasting system. I am not a fan as they are complicated to program. Nortels aren't made new anymore. Avaya bought up all their equipment.

 

[madasaht1969]

there is allot of rubbish on here about hosted systems. Normally posted by engineers who do not want to and cant move with the times. We now only install hosted and the 12000 seats and climbing cant be wrong why would i want a bit of tin that is outdated in 5 years when i can have a system that is always up to date and has a up-time and disaster recovery that is un matched

 

[BIS]

Normally posted by engineers who do not want to and cant move with the times."

How did you reach that conclusion?

 

[LoPath]

up-time and disaster recovery that is un matched"

Never had a network outage? My premise-based system is unaffected by any external network issues.

LoPath
Maintain HiPath 4000 V5 & V6, OpenScape Xpert V4, Xpressions, Contact Center

 

[montyzummer]

madasaht1969 ... i have to say that is a rather bold and indeed rubbish unthought out statement , so how is your disaster recovery unmatched when Mr workman puts his digger through the service connection to site ? in fact in a hosted system that is the biggest weakness ... i know as my company install both .. in fact our larger enterprise customers have the physical equipment located off site in data centres , so you could call that "hosted" the difference is , you have control over your equipment with on site "outdated boxes of tin" ... another myth ... one of our largest customers have had the same duplex servers for the last 10 years with the equipment on site and have simply upgraded memory and firmware when needed

... also if Mr workman does go through said connection to site with his digger , the network provider automatically recognises this and routes all inbound to a multi channel cellular solution(x 100 ports) that is connected onsite concurrently , like wise outbound calls route over the cellular circuits .. so how is a hosted solution matching that ...... i also think to make blanket statements that people cant not move on , just because you are pushing one type of technology in your mind ... is rather .... well ... silly , i dont care if my customers use hosted or fixed premise , i just care about uptime and in my experience all 20 years of it... on premise , gives more control , uptime and service options.

Ohh in large environments can you tell me on lets say a 3000 seat campus if the digger situation occurs , how do the users contact each other with a true hosted solution , if you have the answer to that and im missing something , please let me know as i would on a technical level be interested , cell phones and smoke signals are not permitted options.

ACSS (UC/SBCE/SM/SME)

Not that they mean a thing anymore , get a brain dump pass the test crash the system.

 

[curlycord]

Dear madasaht1969....or should I say hostedtelephone?
Yes sorry but nice try on the name change, still bashing people that don't fancy hosted huh?

Interesting old comment I found btw.... "How can you say you have been "in the bussiness" when you are a end user have you tryed hosted and all the features it gives you"
That was cut and pasted just as you wrote it in 2012
Am I correct Mr "madasaht1969 (TechnicalUser)" whom appears to be a vendor this time around?

Is it not better to let a client decide which way to go rather then bash one side or the other or to say that peoples options are "rubbish"?

Clients may want control of their own systems and not have to rely or be held hostage by one vendor alone.
They may also want to make their own programming changes and not have to call or wait for a vendor to do this and charge for every little little programming change.

There is so many things to say "for" or "against" both hosted and non-hosted therefore a hosted system should be treated as yet just another system.

Try and post advantages rather then calling people rubbish next time perhaps?

Cheers
cc











________________________________________
We take the time to try to answer your questions for free, please return the favor and take the time to answer back and include any resolution you found elsewhere, thanks.

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Toronto Canada

http://www.telcopc.ca

 

[montyzummer]

LOL ..... ermmmm busted , shamed and genrally made to look like a bit of a foolish twonk

ACSS (UC/SBCE/SM/SME)

Not that they mean a thing anymore , get a brain dump pass the test crash the system.

 

[janni78]

Anyone working long enough in this industry should know by know that there isn't one system that fits all customers, hosted or on-premise.

It all comes down to what's the best fit for the customer.
Sadly most of the times sales people are more focused on selling what they know than what the customer needs, which usually bites you in the ass, but then it's the technicians problem.

"Trying is the first step to failure..." - Homer

 

[intrigrant]

There is a market for both of them and it is the consultant to offer the best solution no matter what it looks like.
But, as ususal, the offer made has a lot of personal interest of the consultant:
How much do I earn on the deal?
What systems I know best?
Who are my competetors?
What is the customers preference?

I have never met a real independent consultant TBH

 

[curlycord]

You gave up posting because of the negativity yet you come back just to be negative with your very first sentence?
The only negativity I can see here was intrigrant's comment about Nortel...lol

Anyway, better to answer the question at the top and list some features like RlsButton did as I would be interested to see them myself because I do believe that the hosted systems are changing themselves but not sure how much.

A problem as a vendor is perhaps a hosted solution would shut them down?
I have been offered monthly commissions by converting my clients to hosted but the income just does not compare to Installs/Parts/Service Agreements/MAC's/Relocates and so on.

Cheers











________________________________________
We take the time to try to answer your questions for free, please return the favor and take the time to answer back and include any resolution you found elsewhere, thanks.

=----(((((((((()----=

http://www.curlycord.com

Toronto Canada

http://www.telcopc.ca

 

[RLSbutton]

Hello madasaht1969, Could you provide some examples of how hosted would work in a few different (typically premised based)applications:

-a large hospital currently using a Nortel CS1000 or Avaya PBX, where HIPPA privacy laws are an issues.
-a large airport that has multiple extensions and multiple public address paging zones tied into the telephone system.
-a 911 call center that typically uses Nortel M series or Avaya 6400 series sets.
-An Emergency operations center for a city like NYC or Chicago?
-A grocery store chain that has multiple locations with multiple lines and they need overhead paging.
-a large US University with over 40,000 extensions.

Thanks,



Joseph Sus Jr. Nortel Emetrotel Consultant

http://www.joetheucxguy.com

 

[Westi]

Hey guys
let's take a step back and compare apples to apples
Large installations on hosted make not a lot of sense because you are relying on the Internet connection to make the phones work. Your Internet as well as the providers Internet and all between connections. If you have 10 locations with only 3-10 phones each it makes much more sense because you don't need hardware other than phones in each location. It is unlikely that all your locations lose Internet at the same time (except if the provider is the same) so you should be able to get the calls.
If you want real redundancy you have to spend a lot of money to have that on a local level.

Redundancy is a great thing and advertised by a lot of hosted providers but they also must have redundancy and not just claim that this is a feature and they usually charge more than providers without that ability.

I am old school and have my own phone system (Avaya IP Office) at home with SIP and analog trunks (yes analog Alexander Graham Bell is proud of me) if my phone system goes down (I have 2 backup systems that I just need to plug in and I am up and running but that is not the norm I guess) the SIP gets routed to my cell phone when not connected and the analog trunk is never used other than by telemarketers and outgoing

Hosted and on-prem systems have their advantages and they are not in the same ranges so I don't understand the pissing match about which one is better all the time.
Take the ruler away and say that each customer has a unique requirement and therefore each customer may or may not be best served with hosted or on-prem systems.

One thing I have to however clarify: hosted phones, even though they are SIP, may not work on ALL other hosted solutions as well as they do on the one they worked at one time. Even SIP phones have compatibility issues and sometimes to make them work it is just not worth the amount of labour to figure out which settings need to be tweaked.

Joe W.

FHandw, ACSS (SME)


"This is the end of the world, make sure to buy your T-shirt before it is too late"
Original expression of my daughter

 

[phoneguy610]

yea joe your comps are not the best. Those are clearly pbx implementations. My 2 cents is that hospitals and schools and 1500+ endpoints are the bad fits for hosted. But cmon guys you have to see where the industry is headed. Avaya itself is looking to nix the IPO and do server only. We offer both hosted and prem, and 9 of 10 times hosted makes more sense. Especially anything under 50 seats, its a no brainer.

And just fyi we have a grocery chain with many locations with hosted with overhead paging. You can easily accomplish this and page zones if you know what you are doing.

And i see above alot of mention about what if the internal network goes down? With a hosted solution you are still online. Calls are automatically rerouted to cell phones, mobile apps, offsite phones, voicemail, etc. With a prem system, if you had a power failure or sip trunks + network failure you are dead in the water. This is probably the biggest selling point of a hosted solution. And to say that cell phones are the same as smoke signals is pretty far fetched. We see more and more our clients looking for mobility over anything else. You say uptime, but what premise system has 100% uptime? We guarantee that with our geo redundant switch.

And cost is another thing i see bringing up not comparing apples to apples. With a hosted platform you get constant updates and support covered for likely the same or less then the client was already paying for telco. With a prem solution you get a system that within a year is generally behind in terms of new technology especially with advancements in web rtc coming out.

As a guy that sells both and has the same metaphorical pony in both race, i rarely see situations in where prem beats hosted. Of course there are some but its getting less and less. We just started a white label reseller platform, and we inherit a lot of "old phone guys" who are looking to move their prem clients to hosted. Its where the industry is headed folks as much as we want to fight it, technology in general is moving to the cloud, and voice in 5 years is just going to be thought of as another app. Especially when the younger generation and millenials start becoming decision makers

 

[RLSbutton]

Hey Phoneguy, are you in Europe or the UK? I forgot.

You do have a good point, that the larger installations are meant for PBX installations.

So tell me more about this grocery store setup? I thought paging in Europe wasn't as popular? It's interesting to hear that one chain might actually use paging.

Joseph Sus Jr. Nortel Emetrotel Consultant

http://www.joetheucxguy.com

 

[phoneguy610]

We use an ATA with a tamb2 paging adapter works like a charm. We have this in most of our implementations

I'm in US by the way not Europe so not sure how it goes across the pond

 

[RLSbutton]

OH, sorry for some reason I thought you were in the UK.

The SNOM PA1 works really well too for overhead paging, as well. I am sure the tamb2 is great too. Have you heard of Meijer? I've mentioned them on here. They have gone from Avaya to using hosted Lync from their corporate office and using a Audiocodes Media gateway at each store location, tied into a SNOM PA1 for zone paging at each store.



Joseph Sus Jr. Nortel Emetrotel Consultant

http://www.joetheucxguy.com

 

[phoneguy610]

snom looks like a cool device ill have to get one in the lab for the guys to test