Which Crystal Reports do I need?

[TimOSullivan]

Hi,
I've developed a web application consisting of SQL Server, MTS & IIS.

Web site was developed with Visual Interdev with all data access handled by visual basic com objects running in MTS.

I needto present reports over the web with data from SQL.
There will not be any direct access to SQL from the web pages; the VB Com objects will handle all of this.
The reports will be predefined and the 'system', (whatever I'll use), will just accept parameters for the report, generate the report and send it to the web page.

I like the look of the features in Crystal Reports, especially the capability to have reports viewed on Unix as well as MS systems.

If crystal reports will do, which version do I need?
(Developer / Prof / Standard / Enterprise)

Is there another reporting package that will do the job?

I'd appreciate any advise on this.

Thanks,
Tim

 

[dcm]

TimOSullivan: The tool for you is the Developer Edition of version 8.5 with Enterprise. What this combination will give you is access to the VB or XML development processes plus a first class web based distribution and security system to deliver the output. If you need any more just ask David C. Monks
david.monks@chase-international.com

http://www.chase-international.com

Accredited Seagate Enterprise Partner

 

[TimOSullivan]

David,
I purchased the dev edition of CR and it works perfectly.
However, I'm totally confused with the licensing!
My reports are pre-defined and stored on the web-server.
When a client requests a report, ASP gets a recordset from a com in mts and updates the report with the returned recordset.
The updated report is then sent to the client.
Does this procedure require multiple client licenses?

Is it possible for a com module to update the report and pass the report as an object to the client via ASP?
Would this still require extra licensing?

The clients will not be changing anything on the reports, i.e. there is no design requirement on the client side.
The reports are not dynamic reagarding layout etc.
Only the data in the report is updated.

My understanding of the license is as follows:
If the report was originally created with CR and is stored on a server, in whatever export format, and more than 5 clients will view the report at the same time, then I need to increase the CAL.
Is this correct?

On another note:
If I create a web site for a customer with a reporting system like that outlined above, what sort of license does the customer need to purchase?

Sorry for all the questions but I'd appreciate some thoughts on the above.

Thanks,
Tim

 

[AyJayEL]

Take a look at the thread 181-27567.

 

[kenhamady]

I would read thread 149-64619. A discussion of Seagate Licensing. Ken Hamady

http://www.kenhamady.com/

Crystal Reports Training/Consulting and a
Quick Reference Guide to VB/Crystal (including ADO)

 

[TimOSullivan]

Don't mean to shoot any messengers here.....

I've read those threads and am still confused.

I'm not distributing reports to anyone.
The report is lying on a server.
No client is going to modify or change the report.
Why do I need runtime licenses for this?
Previous versions didn't need one and the clients haven't changed.

According to all that I've read, if I send a FAX of a report created with CR, the receiver of the FAX has to have a license to read the FAX!!!!

At this stage I have to return the software to Seagate as I cannot comply with their licensing system.... there is no way any client of mine is going tolerate being to be held ransom for $ thousands just to view a report.

If anyone knows of good alternatives to CR please let me know.

Thanks again,
Tim

 

[kenhamady]

Tim,

I don't think "confused" is the right word. Unfortunately I think you probably understand the license pretty clearly. Most people don't, which is why not many people have voiced complaints. Starting with V8, they have done unique things with the license which few understood. My main concern is licensing of the output, as opposed to the software. Even many of us who read the license missed that.

Please call Seagate, (800)877-2340. Tell them if you think it is unreasonable. This will allow them to "clarify" for you exactly what the license means. Then ask them to put their clarifications in writing. They are in the process of doing that for me and I want them to know I am not alone in my concern.

Ken Hamady

http://www.kenhamady.com/

Crystal Reports Training/Consulting and a
Quick Reference Guide to VB/Crystal (including ADO)

 

[TimOSullivan]

I've just e-mailed them and will telephone them at the U.S.
I've been on to U.K. support without satisfaction.
(I'm in Ireland).

I honestly do not think that this licensing policy is going to hold.
According to the runtime.hlp file you are allowed to distribute or use the runtime files if you are not using certain methods/properties.

I don't need any of the methods which require the royalty required files but, in order to get the ASP to work properly you have to use them.... even if you end up just passing dummy tables etc to the properties.

This is forcing you to use a royalty required file when you don't need it. There is a definite legal question here and a huge moral one!

Even Microsoft allow you to distribute documents created with Word royalty free. They even supply a FREE viewer for those files for anybody who doesn't have Word!

Which has just triggered a light bulb---- Can I get a recordset into Word? Automatically?
Anybody I develop for has Word...I could get my app to generate reports using word and then transmit them.
Or am I just dreaming?

Tim

 

[MalcolmW]

I had a client offer to pay me to write him a summary of the license policy of Crystal Reports. I've provided training on the product before, but on the license arrangement? A sure sign things are way out of hand.

However, I'll share the "company line" I got for the change in license fees for the ASP reporting model:
V8 is multithreaded, more stable, so users don't need to stay connected for as long.
V8 you can control the default timeout for connection, so that you can control the number of users connected.
With version 7, because it was single threaded, you really couldn't have that many users connected simultaneously. In practical terms, you were probably limited to about 5 concurrent users with V7 anyway.

By the way, printing to a fax would qualify as a printed document, so it would probably escape the license claim. However, if you then scan the document, it again becomes a file created from a Crystal Reports report, and viewing is subject to license. Isn't that a hoot?
Malcolm

 

[TimOSullivan]

Yeah, But if you send the fax straight from the PC to 100 recipients, you're stung... right?

My whole point in this is as follows:
My web app is not a reporting app. It is an app. that allows users to submit proposals for budgeting; orders against budgets; invoices against orders etc. to a SQL db.

Now and again, the users will want to print a copy of their submissions. The organisation wants the printed copies to conform to a certain format.
I needed something that would present the submitted data received from a ASP recordset in a format like MS Access.
Something that would show a pre-view of the report and allow it to be printed in a pre-defined format.
Crystal reports fitted the bill perfectly, and, if I had purchased it a few months ago (V8.0), I don't think I would have to put up with this licensing issue.
However, CR's 'clever' marketing on V8.5 was very vague about the licensing requirements.
I didn't fully understand what it meant until I tested the app by opening several instances on my development PC.
When I opened the sixth one, I got the message about the license! Horror!!

The thing is, the users will not be designing the reports or changing the layouts etc.

I always understood that licensing was applied to the use of a product to create something, and that whatever was created was yours and yours to do whatever with, not withstanding any licensed controls etc.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't Adobe allow you to distribute as many copies of PDF documents as you want? Freely?
Also, if I export a CR report to PDF, doesn't the licensing issue now come under Adobe's domain?

If CR's licensing policy holds, then it's the start of a downward spiral for software in general.
They're actually charging you for sending the ouput of their software to people.
It's like having to have a license to have a conference call with more than 5 people.

Is this the start of 'Pay-per-view' computing???

Tim

 

[hmohrmann]

Licensing (On SCR 8 CD)

For existing users of Crystal Reports Professional (any version earlier than Version 8) please note that your range of rights for report design as well as for runtime distribution of client applications have not changed, so upgrading client applications will still be royalty free. Only when you take advantage of the new report creation features below will a royalty be required.

Runtime files:

CRAXDRT.DLL
CRYSTALWIZARD.DLL

The above is straight off of the SCR 8 CD in the developers help file with a complete list of all the files that are runtime free (which includes all the files needed for Web/ASP distribution).

 

[kenhamady]

Yes, but there is a difference between paying royalties for the report creation API, and having to buy a Broadcast license for automated report distribution.

If I read the license correctly, automated faxes to over 50 users would be considered a "broadcast", requiring either the end users to be licensed, or the distributor to buy a $10K or more broadcast license.

I have traded a few Emails with the licensing manager at CD but haven't gotten a clear answer, and now I have stopped getting responses. Maybe some of you who are concerned should ask her these questions.

Her Email address is:
Jaylene.Crick@crystaldecisions.com

If several people ask these questions, they are more likely to get answered. From their prespective, it doesn't hurt for the license to be vague and tilted in their favor. That leaves them the option of determining how strictly to enforce it later. Ken Hamady

http://www.kenhamady.com/

On-site custom Crystal Reports Training and Consulting.
Quick Reference Guide to using Crystal in VB.

 

[kenhamady]

Jaylene sent me a clear response to my questions on the Broadcast license. I have posted all of our traded Emails on my web site. Her answer is clear, but it seems to contradict the normal English of the license. Any comments are welcome. Ken Hamady, On-site/Phone Crystal Reports Training/Consulting
Quick Reference Guide to using Crystal in VB

http://www.kenhamady.com/