When is 12pm 2

[columb]

There's a discussion going round the office as to when 12pm (and, for that matter, 12am) refer to. Personnally I wouldn't use such an ambiguous phrase, but, if I did, then 12pm would be the middle of the night and 12am would be lunch time. however, it would appear that I'm out of step with, for example, the BBC.

Does anyone know of any authoratitive style guides on this?

Ceci n'est pas une signature
Columb Healy

 

[flapeyre]

While 12 noon and 12 midnight theoretically do exist, they are points in time, without any duration. By the time you can react to say, "It's exactly 12 noon", it isn't 12 noon anymore. Therefore, as a practical matter, it's always either <something> AM or PM.

And while we're on, there is also no such thing as 24:00:00; the time goes from 23:59:59.999999..... directly to 00:00:00 the next day.

Solum potestis prohibere ignes silvarum.

 

[IknowMe]

Since the only reference in the definitions is noon, I think it could be even more confusing than that. Without specifying which noon your refering to how do you know if your currently befroe or after it?

ex. I am currently before today's noon (locally) but after many previous noons as well as before many noons. Right?

Wow, I'm having amnesia and deja vu at the same time.
I think I've forgotten this before.

 

[IknowMe]

As this is MAI befroe s/b before.

Wow, I'm having amnesia and deja vu at the same time.
I think I've forgotten this before.

 

[Thadeus]

If noon is the determininant in AM and PM, wouldn't midnight be just as much post 12 hours as pre 12 hours?

I would think that only 12 noon can't have an AM PM designator. 12 midnight is in fact 12 hours Post Meridiem... It is also 12 hours Anti Meridiem.

just a few cents more...
~Thadeus

 

[aardvark92]

12 midnight is in fact 12 hours Post Meridiem... It is also 12 hours Anti Meridiem.

I think that would depend on whether the day begins with midnight, or whether it ends with midnight. It can't be both AM and PM, because one or the other is actually a different day.

 

[Skie]

I think that would depend on whether the day begins with midnight, or whether it ends with midnight. It can't be both AM and PM, because one or the other is actually a different day.

But, since we start a new day at 00:00:00...

And while we're on, there is also no such thing as 24:00:00; the time goes from 23:59:59.999999..... directly to 00:00:00 the next day.

Then midnight must fall under AM. If it were PM, it'd be part of the previous day.

 

[sha76]

Although I agree with the logic of 12 being neither am or pm surely if you are assigning it it makes more sense to go 11.55am, 12.00pm, 12.05pm than 11.55am, 12.00am, 12.05pm? It just seems more logical & neater to me.

"Your rock is eroding wrong." -Dogbert

 

[flapeyre]

Midnight (and noon) are neither AM nor PM. They are points which form the boundary between AM and PM.

Midnight and noon are not "times"; they only exist in the abstract. For that matter, time itself, and our measurement thereof, is an abstact concept, albeit based upon the rotation of the earth.

"Noon" is neither AM nor PM; and so, neither is "midnight". From that, we deduce that "midnight" belongs neither to the previous day, nor to the next.

Solum potestis prohibere ignes silvarum.

 

[LNBruno]

Does anybody really know what time it is?

The more I read this thread,
The more it hurts my head.
I think I'm done,
So it's off for fun.
I'm... bed.

< M!ke >
Your right to an opinion does not obligate me to take you seriously.
- Winston Churchill

 

[sleipnir214]

Does anybody really know what time it is?

Only, in the famous words of the band Chicago, it's:

Does anybody really know what time it is?
Does anybody really care?
If so, I can't imagine why,
we've all got time enought to cry



Want the best answers? Ask the best questions! TANSTAAFL!

 

[Welshbird]

It's time for tea.

Anyone else want a cuppa?

Fee

The question should be [red]Is it worth trying to do?[/red] not [blue] Can it be done?[/blue]

 

[rjoubert]

I was always taught that 12pm is noon, and 12am is midnight. Plus, the handy dandy calendar utility in email program uses 12pm for noon.

 

[p5wizard]

I was always taught that 12pm is noon, and 12am is midnight. Plus, the handy dandy calendar utility in email program uses 12pm for noon.

So say most (if not all) digital clocks, mobile phones, ... if in 12hr clock display.

p5

 

[SF0751]

<off topic>
Do you know the musical answer to Chicago's question "Does Anybody Really Know What Time It Is?"

Spoiler

25 or 6 to 4, from the Chicago II album

Susan
"Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls, and looks like work." - Thomas A. Edison

 

[snuv]

The time shown on a digital clock is an interval bounded by two instants
An instant cant be compared to an interval anymore than a length can be compared to an area

I would argue that the clock is correct to show 12:00pm
Noon is an instant and has no duration. The clock is showing that the time is in the first minute after the meridien. Any error is infinitely small.

Starting your lunch at 12:00pm is a different kettle of fish. The start of your lunch is also an instant and can be compared to noon.

Maybe we should campaign for 12:00m for noon.




"If it could have gone wrong earlier and it didn't, it ultimately would have been beneficial for it to have." : Murphy's Ultimate Corollary

 

[Rofeu]

then there is the part that 12:00:00 is not even the meridian.

 

[rjoubert]

Maybe we should campaign for 12:00m for noon.

That may provide for more confusion, with some people thinking the "m" stands for midnight.

 

[KenCunningham]

Replace the 'some' with 'most' and you've probably got a point. Unless of course the m was supposed to be an 'n'?

I want to be good, is that not enough?

 

[rjoubert]

I'm guessing he meant 12m to mean 12 meridian.

 

[KenCunningham]

I agree. But 'meridian' would (sadly) be lost on many people.

I want to be good, is that not enough?