When is 12pm 2

[columb]

There's a discussion going round the office as to when 12pm (and, for that matter, 12am) refer to. Personnally I wouldn't use such an ambiguous phrase, but, if I did, then 12pm would be the middle of the night and 12am would be lunch time. however, it would appear that I'm out of step with, for example, the BBC.

Does anyone know of any authoratitive style guides on this?

Ceci n'est pas une signature
Columb Healy

 

[Welshbird]

This might help?

Fee

The question should be [red]Is it worth trying to do?[/red] not [blue] Can it be done?[/blue]

 

[p5wizard]

I'd use a 24hr clock to get rid of the ambiguity...

or:

12:00 midnight
12:01 to 11:59 AM
12:00 noon
12:01 to 11:59 PM

about what Fee's "this" link amounts to.

p5

 

[Grenage]

Or we can just tell people to remember than 12pm is noon, It's not rocket science. I personally use a 24 hour clock.

"We can categorically state that we have not released man-eating badgers into the area" - Major Mike Shearer

 

[columb]

Or we can just tell people to remember than 12pm is noon

On what authority do you make this claim? Personnally I agree with greenwichmeantime.com that 12pm is meaningless - noon is neither post, not ante, meridian and midnight is equally both.

Ceci n'est pas une signature
Columb Healy

 

[Grenage]

Because that's what I was taught in school. I've asked a few people around here and they all seem to have been taught the same thing, too.

"We can categorically state that we have not released man-eating badgers into the area" - Major Mike Shearer

 

[Welshbird]

The link may have been more helpful copied and pasted:

A.M. and P.M. start immediately after Midnight and Noon (Midday) respectively.

This means that 00:00 A.M. or 00:00 P.M. (or 12:00 A.M. and 12:00 P.M.) have no meaning.

Every day starts precisely at midnight and A.M. starts immediately after that point in time e.g. 00:00:01 A.M. (see also leap seconds)

To avoid confusion timetables, when scheduling around midnight, prefer to use either 23:59 or 00:01 to avoid confusion as to which day is being referred to.

It is after Noon that P.M. starts e.g. 00:00:01 PM (12:00:01)

Main Entry: an·te me·ri·di·em
Pronunciation:
"an-ti-m&-'ri-dE-&m, -dE-"em
Function: adjective
Etymology: Latin
Date: 1563
Meaning: being before noon
Abbreviation a.m.

Main Entry: post me·ri·di·em
Pronunciation:
-m&-'ri-dE-&m, -"em
Function: adjective
Etymology: Latin
Date: 1647
Meaning: being after noon
Abbreviation p.m.

Source:

http://wwp.greenwichmeantime.com

Fee

The question should be [red]Is it worth trying to do?[/red] not [blue] Can it be done?[/blue]

 

[LNBruno]

Who cares about 12? More importantly, is it 5:00 somewhere? ;-)

< M!ke >
Your right to an opinion does not obligate me to take you seriously.
- Winston Churchill

 

[Thadeus]

Dunno, but it's always 4:20 somewhere...

 

[IknowMe]

Feel free to disagree but around here 12:00pm is lunch and there's no ambiguity about it.

Although I'll be more careful with it's use in forums with international members.




Wow, I'm having amnesia and deja vu at the same time.
I think I've forgotten this before.

 

[ESquared]

It is equally valid to represent time as a circular number line with 24 equal length segments, or to represent time as a circular number line with 24 equidistant dividing points. The segments are exactly one hour in length, and the points are exactly one hour apart.

The term meridian connotes the point model. In the point model, half of the circle being ante meridian and half being post meridian leaves the question of to which half the point belongs. But this is not a question solely for the meridian point: for all points in the point model, to which hour do the points on the number line "belong"—the period before or the period after? It is simplest to say that the points begin an hour rather than end it, and thus noon earns the term P.M. since it is part of the entire 13th hour which is entirely post meridian.

This perhaps arbitrary decision harmonizes well with the equally valid segment model. Where does one locate the exact point in time which is halfway away from the very beginning of the first segment? It must be the very beginning of the thirteenth segment. If the whole 13th segment is labelled with the number 12 and is post meridian, then it is convenient, when using the number 12 exactly with no fraction for the beginning of the 13th segment, to call it post meridian as well.

Noon belongs to the noon hour. And midnight belongs to the midnight hour.

[COLOR=black #d0d0d0]My alarm clock causes time travel. When I hit snooze, no apparent time passes before the alarm sounds again, but the universe has in fact moved forward through time by ten minutes![/color]

 

[Skie]

Based on digital clocks AM switches to PM at 12:00 noon. PM switches to AM at 12:00 midnight. Whether technically correct or not it seems to be consistent.

 

[CajunCenturion]

==> Whether technically correct ...
Technically, you're only talking about 2 seconds out of the entire 24 hour day that are neither AM nor PM. One second before midnight is PM and one second after is AM. It's exactly midnight and 00 seconds (00:00:00) that is neither AM nor PM. Similarly, one second prior to noon is AM (11:59:59) and one second after (12:00:01) is PM. Exactly noon, 12:00:00 is neither.


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[KenCunningham]

That's why I prefer noon and midnight for these times, optionally prefixed by 12 in each case.

I want to be good, is that not enough?

 

[mjldba]

Even a broken watch is right twice a day.

 

[IknowMe]

Technically, 12:00 noon could still be classified as am as the switch to pm doesn't occur until 12:01, could it not? Does the definition of AM and PM allow this?

I believe columbs OP holds some merit but I doubt it would catch on here anytime soon.

Wow, I'm having amnesia and deja vu at the same time.
I think I've forgotten this before.

 

[CajunCenturion]

==> Does the definition of AM and PM allow this?
I don't think so. AM means 'before' and PM means 'after'. Neither means 'equal to'.

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Good Luck
To get the most from your Tek-Tips experience, please read
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[IknowMe]

Right so it'd be something like this

if time is > 00:01 and < 13:01 then AM Else PM

as the switch takes place at :01 correct?



Wow, I'm having amnesia and deja vu at the same time.
I think I've forgotten this before.

 

[IknowMe]

I guess not pre and post doesn't cover the actual time of the event does it.

Wow, I'm having amnesia and deja vu at the same time.
I think I've forgotten this before.

 

[CajunCenturion]

I don't think that's right. I think you could say

if time > 00:00 and < 12:00 then am
else if time > 12:00 and < 24:00 then pm
else neither one

or perhaps you could say

if time >= 00:01 and <= 11:59 then am
else if time >= 12:01 and <= 23:59 them pm
else neither one

In either case, exactly 00:00 and exactly 12:00 aren't either one.


--------------
Good Luck
To get the most from your Tek-Tips experience, please read
FAQ181-2886
As a circle of light increases so does the circumference of darkness around it. - Albert Einstein