What's up with those recruitment firms?

[ovs8]

Hi there,

So what is the catch with those recruitment firms? At this point in my life I'm looking for a full-time permanent Netadmin position wiht benefits. Looks like they provide that. It seems that they have a lot of positions available. So there has to be a catch. Is that the wages that's much lower or what?

thanks
oleg

 

[svanels]

Recruiters always have a lot of positions open, If they don't advertise that, would you step in (and of course pay them) asking if they can help you with a job? Someone has to pay the recruiters bill (probably you), there is no charity involved.

Steven

 

[ovs8]

I guess so. But I meant those that hire you and pay your benefits and 401K what have you. And then sub you to the clients of theirs. Is this how they work? If so, how are they differrent from a regular consulting company?

 

[chiph]

In the recruiting business, the client always pays for the hire. Always. If a recruiter is demanding money up front, they are not legit -- why should you pay them, when computerjobs.com and monster.com are free for job seekers?

Usually what a recruiter wants is to add you to his list of people that he can call on in case he gets a requirement for someone with your skills. They may or may not have an actual job they're trying to match you with.

Most recruiters aren't too discriminating. I got an email from one that was looking for a MANFRAME ARCHETICT [sic], despite that I have no mainframe skills at all. Nor would I work with someone whose caps-lock is stuck on, and can't spell, and hadn't actually read my resume.

If you can find a recruiter who fairly promotes you based on your skills and desires; keep in touch with them, as they're a rare find.

So far as jobs with/with-out benefits -- you need to decide up front what you'll be willing to take. Jobs w/o benefits should pay about 25% more than those with benefits.

And then sub you to the clients of theirs.

This isn't a "true" recruiter, but a recruiter who is working at a contracting company. The good ones can be very good, but the majority are just body-shops, where they find a client who needs left-handed Java programmers, and they match that requirement up with left-handed Java programmers they know of from their files.

Usually, when the job is over, you're let go. I'm doing that right now -- when the contract ends later this year, I'll be officially unemployed. But the guy I'm working for is pretty good, and he's likely to find another job for me, so I won't be jobless for too long. Otherwise, I'll work with some of the other recruiters I know and see what they can get me.

Chip H.


____________________________________________________________________
If you want to get the best response to a question, please read FAQ222-2244 first

 

[PatrickIRL]

Most recruiters aren't too discriminating.  I got an email from one that was looking for a MANFRAME ARCHETICT [sic], despite that I have no mainframe skills at all.  Nor would I work with someone whose caps-lock is stuck on, and can't spell, and hadn't actually read my resume.

Oh, so true it hurts!

Patrick

 

[jrbarnett]

Glad to see its not just UK recruitment consultants who don't actually check to see if their candidates are suitable for a particular role, and append the emails with something like:

"If this role is not suitable for you, we apologise for the inconvenience, but if you know somebody who is suitably qualified for this, please forward it onto them."

John

 

[Claudek]

Most recruiters I've met have been clueless about IT. The are generally good talkers who can smooth talk a company and a candidate. A good example is an interview where in the small talk, I found out the recruitment agent was an ex-farmer (not much talk regarding skill level for the job there).

Recruitment agencies get a good deal from job placements. From what i've gathered, they get a one off payment for a permanent placement (usually in the $1000s). For contract positions, they will pay you $25/hour when they are charging the client $55/hour -- if you finish with the client in a contract and the client wants you back (within the period listed in your contract with the agency,which states that you cannot directly get work with a client without going throught them, usually 6 months or so), they again get the good slice of the money.

Another thing regarding Recruitment Agencies, if you apply for a job with them, put in a read receipt if possible. You'd be suprised how many agencies don't even bother reading your applicaiton and delete them without reading, and send you the letter stating that you were good but they found someone better but will keep you in mind for other roles etc. Also, while not exactly legal (depending on where you live), some agancies post bogus jobs with some very general skills required in various fields. They get a lot of applications and they use this to populate their Candidates database. I've seen some agencies advertise the same jobs for over 6 months who never reply when queried about it via phone or email.

If you do go applying for a job with a recruitment agency, make sure you read as many job listings as you can and put the skills most wanted in your resume (asuming you do have them). Basically your resume will be in their database and they do a search and call those whose resumes turn up in the results - so if job wants "active directory" skills for eg, and you have listed yourself being a Windows 2000 network admin for 5 years, doing dns, dhcp, network planning etc and don't put in the Active directory, you won't get listed in the search. Of course you do tend to get calls and emails for the odd stuff you have some experience with which you just chucked into your resume, ie you list having used UNIX while in university in your resume and get a call regarding a job as a 3rd level Unix Systems admin.

It's a smegged world out there in recruitment agencies land.

Claudius (What certifications??)

http://www.iteq.com.au

 

[langleymass]

I am currently on a contract with one firm. For starters, the recruiter mis-represented the job. I am doing stuff I didn't expect to be doing at all--like OSHA compliance and other bureaucratic bull. It's not helping my technical skills much.

The good thing is that like other temp contracts, I scored this without really any interview at all.

I have not had many good experiences with such recruiters. Perhaps the most memorable was when one told me that they would meet me at the recruiting office and then we would go to the interview together. The recruiter ended up being late, and I was late for the interview also.

Do these people have a clue?

I have been taking an acting class for the past few months. In the acting biz, it's different. The agents actually have brains and know the business. The agents have an incentive to get their actors' as much as possible. The agents really do work for the actors.

The fact that IT is so full of jobs that must be obtained through these recruiters is the biggest reason why I tell kids (like my nephew who is graduating from high school) to avoid IT. Recruiters add an element of political bull manure that does not exist in other industries. It's the kind of political garbage that I chose a technical career to avoid. Instead, it is actually more politicized than other industries I've worked in.

 

[Thadeus]

If a recruiter is demanding money up front, they are not legit --

AHH! I hesitate to post this, but this is not always the case.

There are specialty firms that charge a fee for access to the network they have developed. So the recruiters go to the Society of Human Resource Manager meetings, get to know various HR Managers on a personal basis, and then hand out leads they come across based on who is willing to pay for them.

This is a legit business model. It is not the best model for the candidate, but that does not make it even unethical. If a recruiter didn't tell you they would charge you until after they present you to a company and run you through some interviews that would be both unethical and horribly wrong. I have always been told up front how the recruiter does business though... they usually don't want to waste their time.

~Thadeus

 

[Stella740pl]

No matter what was said before, and not to say my experience with recruiters has always been wonderful, but they found me my two best jobs so far - no catch.

One was not actually a true recruiter; he was looking for perm positions for people as well as for contracts and consulting assignments; his company being either recruiting or consulting company there. I found a term contract through him and was actually employed by his company as a consultant for their clients, for a good pay - and they did offer me an independent contract, also; it was just not what I needed.

And this guy did read my resume very carefully: he first started to work with me for another position I wanted but didn't have enough experience for it. When a day later another one came up, practically tailored for me, he said that for the first one he can find people, but this set of skills was harder to find at the moment, and I was just suitably qualified and experienced for it. He helped me to fix my resume so I everything they asked for would be there. Back then, I thought that it already was there – but the clients were not IT people, and he was right to do that (see thread656-1052609 for examples).

Another recruiter (“real recruiter”) found me full time job with benefits. He did read my resume very well, too, and the hiring company made sure he did with rigorous tech and non-tech interviews, background check, etc. I’m still there several years later.

I didn’t have to pay a penny to anyone, but whatever money they got from hiring companies for doing their jobs employing me, it was earned money.

As for the catch you are looking for, usually there is no catch. Some companies find it easier and cheaper to hire a recruiter to find a person or two than to keep the recruiter or the whole department with salary and benefits permanently. Some find it's better to have recruiters to do initial prescreening, so they would not have to sift through mountains of obviously unsuitable candidates (yes, I know not all recruiters can tell the difference) or less likely to face discrimination lawsuits.

Stella

 

[gurner]

I've never had any positive out comes from using recruitment agencies. You see an enormous array of positions available on sites such as GoJobsite and 95% are through agencies.

You apply for a few, and within days you receive a flood of call from agencies running through questions that are answered on your CV.

then after a 15+ minute call, you never hear back from them ever again

i have found the extra leg work looking for positions via the actual employers has always been more benifical, yes there are less returns, as in you find less to apply for, but at least you're not a statistic on an Agents call logging system, adding to their daily quota of calls to try and justify thier income based on how many people they call (there are many of these, our sales people are 'bonused' based on these stats, ha)

Gurner

http://www.divineparadox.co.uk

 

[dBjason]

I've had both good and bad results from recruiters.

One actually thought it was up to him to call me at home (unpaid) and tell me that my code writing was convoluted and messy, at best (the funny part is, at the time I was using design tools to set up a rather large db schema -- I hadn't written a line of code in months). Even though the client had supplied me with a telephone, he still felt it necessary to call my home 3x per week to discuss my style of coding. Looking back I think he had probably confused me with another contractor/client. I had been bumped up to project manager, not a whole lot of coding in that arena.

Anyways, when the time came I put in a full 30 day notice to leave my position in So Cal to be with my new-bride-to-be in Florida. I received a ration of dung ten miles long. I was told how it's a such a tightly-nitched industry that I'd never work in this town again. That my name had gone up on the "bad consultants" website and I would be shunned from IT in So Cal for life. They even went so far as to call my new employer, and take a huge crap on me from 3,000 miles away. Naturally I left anyways. Not too much time later, after the divorce, I came back to So Cal and ended up working for the same consulting firm with the same recruiter (he'd forgotten who I was until he saw my resume -- hired me anyways). I needed the money so I took the position, then quit 3 weeks into the project without notice. I haven't laughed that hard since.

On the flip side, I have worked with some good conract and perm recruiters. Now I'm a perm DBA with a healthcare company, and loving it. But I still keep in the back of my mind that if I'm going to look for work and speak with a recruiter; I'm going to ask them questions about my resume. If they can't answer, I'm pretty sure I don't want to work for them.

Oh yeah, almost forgot... That horrible firm I mentioned is named Robert Half International (it's my turn, Mike!) Ciao!

 

[MDXer]

In my opinion it soley depends on the recruiter you work with. Some recruiters in Large Agencies specialize in either Contract or Perm. I have had wonderful experiences working with RHI located in my city. I work with a single recruiter who specializes in IT Perm Placement. I had worked with her a couple of times after losing a couple of prior jobs, but while she was looking I was on the hunt on my own. Those 2 times I ended up finding something on my own but I would hear from her periodicaly with potential placements. After no contact with her for roughly 3 years upon entering the market this last time I called her up she knew who I was and even what area of IT I was working in. After 3 weeks of me saying i was ready for a job she called with 2 interviews. I was briefed on who the companies where there current needs, and the personalities of those I would interview with. 1 week and 2 interviews with the 1 company I was made a offer and have been here going on 2 years now. I still get calls with potential offers or seeing if i am intrested in something new.

The key is finding the recruiter who is in the know in your city and takes the needs of their clients seriously. Unfortunately for every 1 of those their are probably 100 flakes.

Shoot Me! Shoot Me NOW!!!
- Daffy Duck

 

[jaymaechtlen]

I got a call from recruiter, about 15 months ago.
He was trying to fill a job I never would have applied for.
We discussed, he submitted me, and I got the (temp) position.
The contract was extended a few times, and then they invited me to come on board perm.
So, the recruiter got me into a pretty good paying job I never would have applied for.
ymmv!
Jay

 

[LoaferMan]

Employers are making it hard to get in and easy to get out. They often hire someone as a contractor first and then hire them direct if they are incredibly impressive. If they aren't incredibly impressive, then chances are, after a while they can easily let them go. It is also a common intermediate step for companies to hire contractors before they decide to then outsource IT completely.

LoaferMan - There is no practice life. This is it. (Billy Crockett)

 

[Dollie]

Please note that a recruiter does not always necessarily work for a recruiting firm. My firm utilizes recruiters, but that is not our main course of business.

(Ours know what they're doing too... incredibly smart women!)