What wire to use??????? 4

[atermite]

I am wiring a new building for voice and data using cat3 and cat5e. This is a first for me so be easy! My customer wants to use 3 big screen Plasma HDTV's to use as monitors for the computer network. I have placed, as reccomended, a cat5e and a RG6 to each computer location back to the phone/data room. Will this work for the monitore. I am just placing the wire for the computers, someone else will be doing the networking. Thanks in advance for your help.

 

[skip555]

conduit

if you have dropped ceilings get sparky to run you 3/4 conduit stubbed out above the ceiling

if Sheetrock ceilings then get conduit to a accessible point , back to equip room if necessary

do that and you can upgrade the cable if the need ever arises

 

[mikeydidit]

I am getting about the same on the Berk-Tek 350mhz. for around $210.00 for plenum 1000' box . 1-800-432-0325 111

Hell, there are no rules here - we're trying to accomplish something.
Thomas A. Edison

For the best response to a question, read faq690-6594

 

[phreak23]

I have had most of my customers lately want all of the drops brought into patch panels so they can be used for either voice or data. That is much easier on me and make a much cleaner looking install. However, pulling off a pair for a fax or analog device later on can be a pain, but most of my customers that are upgrading are moving past those types of issues anyway.

 

[willzer]

I wouldn't run CAT3 either, but since that isn't the answer to question at hand then I'm just voicing my opinion. When wiring a building you need to keep the company in mind and look ahead. If they decide a couple of years from now to go with VoIP then CAT3 on long runs will screw your customer into having to rewire. Not to mention replacing jacks if you installed RJ11. Just plan ahead and look at big picture possibilities. Doesn't matter if it works "for now".

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"Chicks dig geeks."

 

[skip555]

if they do VOIP wont they be sharing the network drop with the phone ?

isn't that one of the supposed advantages of VOIP "phones" ?

use 8 conductor jacks for current phone and you get the wrong stuff plugged into the wrong jacks

 

[willzer]

use 8 conductor jacks for current phone and you get the wrong stuff plugged into the wrong jacks

huh? that might would be true if you didn't label at all. when i wire a building i use rj45 for voice AND data, which is totally not uncommon. i typically use an orange keystone jack for network and white for voice to additionally help differentiate the two.

as far as supposed advantages of IP phones, what if your scenario didn't have a network drop due to a wireless network? it also depends on what phone system you were using to deliver voip. some companies install a hybrid system that allows digital and voip but the phone still plugs into the existing voice line, not the data line.

i just don't think it makes sense to wire a building while basing your cabling and terminations solely on what equipment you have NOW, when you can think ahead and allow for growth or change later yet still provide the customer with what they need now. that's the point i'm trying to make.

but this... this is great:

would you drive to a grocery store in anything other than a vehicle capable of traveling 145 mph?

LOL, i love that analogy.


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"Chicks dig geeks."

 

[cvrbob]

or are you selling cat 5e for voice to add more to your bill, its overkill

 

[willzer]

are you accusing me of selling cat5 to pad the bill and gouge the customer? how would i benefit from adding more to my bill if i were ordering a more expensive cable? i could up the cost of CAT3 as easily as CAT5 if i were doing it for profit. what a DUMB line of thought. it's an even dumber line of thought to assume that CAT3 is overkill. it's just bad practice to run CAT3 if there's the slightest chance the company will want voip at a later date. just because it's still a recognized standard and your client is installing a two-line telephone system, doesn't make it the obvious choice. copper is copper but i like to do it right the first time and if a customer comes back a year or so later and asks about what changes need to be made to facilitate a newer technology i'd rather not have to explain the need for placing new runs of a newer type of cable. THAT'S screwing the customer.

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"Chicks dig geeks."

 

[willzer]

excuse me i said "to assume is CAT3 is overkill" when i meant to assume that CAT5e is overkill.

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"Chicks dig geeks."

 

[willzer]

this is obviously a matter of opinion and has nothing to do with the thread so let's all agree to disagree...obviously

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"Chicks dig geeks."

 

[phreak23]

I have had many cases where a year after install the company completely changes what they needed a year before and I was able to say "I sure am glad we installed cat5 in patch panels, we can just plug this network printer in where that phone used to be". Not once have I said "I sure am glad I installed CAT3 on 66-blocks, we sure saved a lot of money."
I've had companies down size and lease out a part of the building and were able to use whichever drop they wanted for phone or data. Pigeonholing yourself is just not a good practice in my opinion.

 

[jimbopalmer]

Always build networks to grow into, not out of. When I questioned Cat 6 it is not because Cat 6 has no place, but because it did not seem to be planned for a place it would be helpful.

Cat 6 in the server room is a good plan, when your servers get to be 10 gig ethernet, you are ready. Cat 6 is limited to 37 meters at 10g, (or other vendors claim 55 meters) so building wide 10g will need Cat 6A. Wait for Cat 6A, or use Cat 5e now, but do not string Cat 6 where it will never outperform Cat 5e, that is just money down a hole. Beyond 37 meters, both Cat 6 and Cat 5e are limited to gig ethernet.

I tried to remain child-like, all I acheived was childish.

 

[aarenot]

Many VOIP phones require POE, and or other more highly capable switches on the data side than what is curently deployed, so many times VOIP phones are implemented on a seperate cable run from the new POE switches dedicated to VOIP phones. Sometimes they are even on a seperate LAN which expands as the old LAN equipment fails, and is replaced by newer hardware. This can also eliminate the need to upgrade legacy data networks which may, or may not be capable enough for VOIP, or other future intended network services.

 

[atermite]

I didn't mean to start a war. I did get my question answered by the computer tech that is doing the work in the new building. He is going to use the cat5 and blauns. However, I would like to address the cat3 v cat5 issue. I understand what all of you are talking about but I wire ALL my business in the same manner. I ALWAYS run double runs of cat3 and cat5 and put, at the minimum, three double runs in EACH room. Most of the business I do will have between 12 and 30 double wire runs and most have suspended ceilings. I would say that nearly all of the runs are less than 100' so placing a new or extra cable is a snap. Now let me say that I use cat5e patch panel for the data and a blue cat5e cable and blue insert and all work is tested for continuity and labeled. The cat3 is terminated on 66m1-50 blocks and each cable is also marked. I never use a patch panel for voice as the 66 blocks are far more easier to work with than the patch panel(pulling off a second line or even a third line on a voice cable is not an easy task if terminated on a patch panel but a 66 block is easy). What I have is a voice AND data jack, together in a dual port faceplate on AT LEAST three walls in EVERY room. I use Keystone type jacks and I can put up to 4 voice jacks in one faceplate with the data jack and not have biscuit jacks stuck to the wall. I label the jacks with a label making tool for a nice appearance. I ALWAYS get with the owner of the building to inquire what each room will be used for and how many people, computers, phones, faxes and so on will be located there. I have had very little problems with wiring in any building I have wired many buildings and my customers love me and my work. Yes, there is very little cost between cat3 and cat5 but cat3 is easier to work with and is all that is required for voice and I DO have a cat5 jack everywhere I have a cat3 and I almost always have at least three cat5 drops in each room. I see no need for running all cat5. By the way, in 10 years from now, you could be replacing the cat6 you placed with so much pride, with new cat11 or cat12 or fiber??? or what ever. Get my drift? The whole thing boils down to this: What works the best right now, probably will not work at all in only a few years from now. Let this be the end of this thread and thanks for all the input. I have decided that I will stay away from running any TV cables. I have a friend that does that!

 

[wires]

I did get my question answered by the computer tech that is doing the work in the new building. He is going to use the cat5 and blauns"

Actually you got that answer right here within 10 hours of your original post. To bad it was apparently lost in the noise...

 

[jerryreeve]

atermite: I can agree with you about cat3/cat5 drops it gives the customer the best flexibility. I find it amusing when you see cat 6 cable run by the electricion for voice drops in a small office.

one cat 3 and one cat 5 drop are among other things easier to keep straight when you are terminating them.

I think cat 3 cable while an abandoned standard by the ethernet world was a godsend to telephone techs. we used to only have JK cable (Red/Green/Black/Yellow) unpaired wires and cat 3 reduced noise in longer runs as well as giving us extra pairs per cable.

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JerryReeve
Communication Systems Int'l
com-sys.com

 

[aarenot]

One of the benefits to myself is that I now carry only one item, and it is interchangable which reduces my inventory costs, and if I have cable at all I know I have the right kind, as I only use one kind. I will order Cat3 for a project, but not carry it in stock.

 

[franklin97355]

We just went to a VOIP phone system. Thank goodness we had cabled with cat6 our last time out

The answer is "42"

 

[aarenot]

Although my previous post mentions the possible need for a seprate cable run for the VOIP phones, that is dependant on the project specs. In all cases with THE Avaya IP Office which I am fluent with it is not needed, as the phone can simply plug into the existing network jack with the PC plugging into the IP Office phone without needing an additional data switch port, or cable run, they just share the one.

 

[franklin97355]

aarenot, ours do too (computer plug into the phone) but, being a school district, the teachers don't always want their phones where their computers are. (Go figure.)

The answer is "42"