What to do with the commas here?

[LFCfan]

This is what I have

I can write what I want, when I want but feel I can’t leave it too long before I post something new.

I think the "when I want but feel" is a little confusing with no comma after "when I want". Also I don't think the comma is necessary after "what I want"

I can write what I want when I want, but feel I can’t leave it too long before I post something new.

The above looks better to me, but then the subject is the same in both parts... Without a comma the sentence might run on a bit too much. What would you advise?

Your input is always appreciated!

~LFCfan
Short stories, mainly in fantasy/SF settings.
Come along and tell me what you think of the worlds I build!

 

[randy700]

What makes sense to me is:

I can write what I want, when I want, but feel I can't leave it too long before I post something new.

Randy

 

[CajunCenturion]

I would write it as
I can write what I want, when I want, but feel I can't leave it too long before I post something new.
You are correct that a comma should not come before the 'but' as you normally would before a coordinating conjunction because that conjunction is not separating two independent clauses. As you said, the subject is the same and independent clauses each have their own subject and verb. However, the non-restrictive clause 'when I want' should be set off with commas. So in effect, you don't have a comma before the 'but' as a conjunction, but you do have a comma after 'want' because it's the end of a non-restrictive clause.

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[LFCfan]

Thank you both.

Why is the comma needed between "what I want" and "when I want" though? I mean, you would write:
I will write about football on Sunday
rather than:
I will write about football, on Sunday


...or wouldn't you?

~LFCfan
Short stories, mainly in fantasy/SF settings.
Come along and tell me what you think of the worlds I build!

 

[CajunCenturion]

What I want" is a non-restrictive clause and non-restrictive clauses are set off with commas on both ends. "On Sunday" is a prepositional phrase and those phrases are not set off with commas.

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[LFCfan]

Thank you.
I learned English through speaking it and reading books, but never formally learned the grammar (I'm Greek and grew up in Athens, where I went to Greek school). My instincts usually serve me well enough but things like non-restrictive clauses throw me.

Any recommendations on grammar books? Methinks it's time I took myself back to school...

~LFCfan
Short stories, mainly in fantasy/SF settings.
Come along and tell me what you think of the worlds I build!

 

[kwbMitel]

LFCfan

My take and general rule in your example. The 2 comma method is the one I would use. My reality check for using this method is to remove the portion between the comma's and see if what is left still presents the same message.

I can write what I want, but feel I can't leave it too long before I post something new.

Adding "when I want" is only adding further detail and as such is enclosed by comma's



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What's most important is that you realise ... There is no spoon.

 

[CajunCenturion]

==> I can write what I want, but feel I can't leave it too long before I post something new.
That is grammatically incorrect because that comma before 'but' does not belong. The clause which follows the conjunction is dependent; therefore, the comma is incorrect. You would only use the comma with a conjunction when the both clauses on either side on the conjunction are independent.

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[kwbMitel]

I wasn't saying the shorter form was correct and I agree that the comma is unnecessary in the shorter form but the rule of thumb I use still applies. It may not work all the time but it works quite well.

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[CajunCenturion]

==> I wasn't saying the shorter form was correct and I agree that the comma is unnecessary in the shorter form but the rule of thumb I use still applies.
To each his own, but when actual rules exits, I prefer to use them to get correct results all of the time rather than a rule of thumb that may not work all the time.

But again, to each his own.


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[dixiematic]

Hi,
The use of commas in English language has always intrigued me and I enjoy a very precise explanation of CajunCenturion although I am not able to make an explanation on the same level with the correct terminology. In his last explanation of the expression "I can write what I want, but feel I can't leave it too long before I post something new" I would put a comma after "but feel": a "that" is omitted there, but it separates a dependat clause that follows. In my language we separate dependant clause from independant one by a comma. I would like to see the comment.
regards m777182

 

[CajunCenturion]

==> The use of commas in English language has always intrigued me
Intriguing is a good word for the all the comma rules.

I agree that you could say "but feel that I", but I don't think you have to. I think the 'that' is optional.

In English, the difference between independent clause and dependent clauses is that independent clauses have their own subject and verb but dependent clauses do not. The easy way to tell is to write each clause as a separate sentence. If it can stand on its own, then it's independent. If it cannot, then it's dependent.

In the shortened version, we have a clause, a conjunction, and a clause.
Clause: I can write what I want
Conjunction: but
Clause: feel I can't leave it too long before I post something new.

The first clause can stand on its own, so it's independent, but the second clause cannot. It's not a complete sentence because it has no subject. The dependent clause contains the verb feel, but its subject is the "I" from the first independent clause. You wouldn't use a comma before the conjunction because that would be separating the verb 'feel' from its subject 'I'.

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[kwbMitel]

CC - rules of thumb are for those of us that don't know all the rules (most of us I might say). For me, memorization is not an option. I look for patterns and use them.

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[dixiematic]

Hi, CajunCenturion
Thanks for your answer-I enjoy it, but later my wife gave me a lesson that I obviously deserved because of my poor knowlidge of my own language. It seems that things are more complex here and let me allow to explain it: the kernel of a clause in my language is always a verb that even staying alone makes a sentence,e.g. "I see" or "We see", but we would normaly omitt the subjec "I" or "We". So the analysis (from my side)would be as follows
1.clause is "I can write" and it is independant
2.clause is "what I want" and it is dependant therefore it should be separated by a comma on each side
3.clase is "but (I) feel", where "I" is omitted in English as well as we would omitt it in my language
4.clause " (that)I can't leave it too long"- "that" is omitted in English but makes this clause dependant, so it should be separated by a comma
and finaly there comes 5.clause"before I post something new", that cannot stay alone because it is time dependant, so it should be separated too. In my language we are dealing with 5 clauses separated by commas:

"I can write, what I want, but feel, I can't leave it too long, before I post something new." It is rather complicated even for us here.

Please understand me that I do not want to teach you- I am just comparing the particularities of different languages.

Regards
M777182

 

[CajunCenturion]

If I may ask, what is your native language? It looks like your rules are rather involved.

In English, there are several different types of clauses: independent clauses, dependent clauses, subordinate clauses, restrictive clauses, non-restrictive clauses, relative clauses, adverbial clauses, elliptical clauses, and I'm sure I've left some out.

The comma rules that apply generally are based more on the role of the clause than the type of clause or on how the clauses are put together. For example, if a dependent clause is non-restrictive, then it is set off with commas, not because it's dependent, but because it's non-restrictive. If a dependent clause is restrictive it is not set off by commas because you don't set off restrictive clauses.

It's fun to look at the differences.


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[dixiematic]

To CajunCenturion
It is Slovenian.Quite archaic.In a dictionary I found words similar to sanskrt. I do not have an explanation. In schools we were tought that our ancestors came from behind the Karpati mountains. The DNK maps show similarity to the Baskian people and of couse to Slovakians, Croatians etc. Science does not provide answers to everything.
Regards
m777182

 

[CajunCenturion]

Cool - thanks dixiematic

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