Very interesting article about .NET and it's effects on the industry.
Jeff
The future is already here - it's just not widely distributed yet...
Jeff
The future is already here - it's just not widely distributed yet...
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What does .NET really mean? 2
- Thread starter MasterRacker
- Start date
dilettante
MIS
Really?
I consider that good news. We're still laying people off in droves here, and the only XP I see deployed is when a PC dies. Repair exceeds the cost of replacement for typical business PCs these days, and this gives them a feeling they are gradually phasing out at least the tiredest old machines.
Maybe the financial industry is looking up, but anything manufacturing related is on really hard times over in my corner of the world. We hit 7.3% unemployed here (Michigan, USA) in December, which doesn't count those who have permanently dropped out of the job pool as unemployment benefits expired for them.
I consider that good news. We're still laying people off in droves here, and the only XP I see deployed is when a PC dies. Repair exceeds the cost of replacement for typical business PCs these days, and this gives them a feeling they are gradually phasing out at least the tiredest old machines.
Maybe the financial industry is looking up, but anything manufacturing related is on really hard times over in my corner of the world. We hit 7.3% unemployed here (Michigan, USA) in December, which doesn't count those who have permanently dropped out of the job pool as unemployment benefits expired for them.
I think one could safely say that more than 1 percent of business PC's have been replaced in the past couple of years for new XP machines, so it would have to be higher than that.
I also think that 99% of .Net coding is not ASP.Net. One could probably get a good guess on that ratio by the number of posts among the ASP.Net, VB.Net and C# forums on this site.
I'm just not convinced that the disk size of the .Net framework is what is keeping it down (if it is fact, being kept down). I think there are still a lot of VB6 developers who do not feel the need to transition over to .Net right now, as well as developers in other languages such as Java who are perfectly suited to programming in what they currently use.
I also think that 99% of .Net coding is not ASP.Net. One could probably get a good guess on that ratio by the number of posts among the ASP.Net, VB.Net and C# forums on this site.
I'm just not convinced that the disk size of the .Net framework is what is keeping it down (if it is fact, being kept down). I think there are still a lot of VB6 developers who do not feel the need to transition over to .Net right now, as well as developers in other languages such as Java who are perfectly suited to programming in what they currently use.
dilettante
MIS
It would be good to see some large-scale statistics. I only know what I see around me. Here, even though almost 1 in 20 desktops have Windows XP now they are mostly a few years old. Early distributions of XP did not include any version of the CLR, I think it was added to the CDs somewhere between SP1 and SP2. Both retail edition copies I have at home have no CLR on the CD, but they were pre-SP1.
The number of .Net Framework desktop installations is surely increasing, but I think it will really be driven by successful applications. Since .Net is more of an internal development tool (like Java) I think this will take the form of "smart client" applications before shrink-wrapped software.
It is just a matter of time.
The number of .Net Framework desktop installations is surely increasing, but I think it will really be driven by successful applications. Since .Net is more of an internal development tool (like Java) I think this will take the form of "smart client" applications before shrink-wrapped software.
It is just a matter of time.
- Thread starter
- #25
MasterRacker
New member
I agree that adoption will be driven by applications. The framework is nothing size-wize. When the smallest hard drives being produced are 40GB, a 25mb framework is nothing.
Think of a person with a 3-4 megapixel camera. A handfull of pictures at full resolution and color depth will eat up 25 MB easily.
When programs start being demonstratable more stable and secure due to the built-in bounds checking, removal of raw pointer access, etc. more people will jump in.
Remember that .NET 2.0 is also being accompained by stripped down, single language versions of Visual Studio aimed at hobbyists. To go with this is a hugely extended framework to give them many more "building blocks". The pre-marketing is claiming that 2.0 apps can be developed with half the custom source code to do the same job.
MS is pushing this out top-down and bottom up. How it will all come together is anyone's guess.
(The .NET Prerequisites CD that comes with MSDN has a volume label of "Office11"....Can anyone say "convergence"?)
[purple]Jeff
It's never too early to begin preparing for [/purple]International Talk Like a Pirate Day
Think of a person with a 3-4 megapixel camera. A handfull of pictures at full resolution and color depth will eat up 25 MB easily.
When programs start being demonstratable more stable and secure due to the built-in bounds checking, removal of raw pointer access, etc. more people will jump in.
Remember that .NET 2.0 is also being accompained by stripped down, single language versions of Visual Studio aimed at hobbyists. To go with this is a hugely extended framework to give them many more "building blocks". The pre-marketing is claiming that 2.0 apps can be developed with half the custom source code to do the same job.
MS is pushing this out top-down and bottom up. How it will all come together is anyone's guess.
(The .NET Prerequisites CD that comes with MSDN has a volume label of "Office11"....Can anyone say "convergence"?)
[purple]Jeff
It's never too early to begin preparing for [/purple]International Talk Like a Pirate Day
I don't look at it so much as a size issue. I don't care if it's 25K, 25 Meg or 25 Gig--it's another point of failure, another complicated diagnostic mess of version confusion to sort through when things go wrong. If you write a program under the 1.1 framework and it works differently on newer runtimes, or more likely--write one under a newer framework that doesn't run on the older one, how is that different from dll hell?
--J
>If you write a program under the 1.1 framework and it works differently on newer runtimes, or more likely--write one under a newer framework that doesn't run on the older one, how is that different from dll hell?
Isn't all this conjecture at this point?
What is the reality?
__________________________________________
Try forum1391 for lively discussions
Isn't all this conjecture at this point?
What is the reality?
__________________________________________
Try forum1391 for lively discussions
dilettante
MIS
Well, there are articles like Compatibility Considerations and Version Changes, though they barely discuss 1.0 because of its low adoption rate. Framework 1.1 saw much more significant use.
dilettante
MIS
Wow, I refreshed the page and now there's a lot more on 1.0! Must be something about to happen?
dilettante
MIS
Hmm, maybe x64 adoption will end up being the real driver toward .Net if few other 64-bit Windows developer tools become widely available.
x86 and ia64 and x64, oh my!
x86 and ia64 and x64, oh my!
I have never shown an interest in VB (or deriratives), and Microsoft's endless use of it in ASP documentation really put me off using their platform.
Old ASP did support other languages but there was sparse documentation, presumably to prevent VB-developers from migrating to alternative languages.
.NET is more inviting because it's documentation is catering for a wider variety of languages: languages which are known outside the MS-camp. This is not a sign of benevolence: it is, ultimately, another Microsoft trap/lock-in!
Once the developers who are familiar/loyal to non-MS languages have migrated to .NET, Microsoft will revert to pushing only a language it dominates (perhaps VB-related) and convert more developers into permanent MS-drones
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Memoria mihi benigna erit qui eam perscribam
Old ASP did support other languages but there was sparse documentation, presumably to prevent VB-developers from migrating to alternative languages.
.NET is more inviting because it's documentation is catering for a wider variety of languages: languages which are known outside the MS-camp. This is not a sign of benevolence: it is, ultimately, another Microsoft trap/lock-in!
Once the developers who are familiar/loyal to non-MS languages have migrated to .NET, Microsoft will revert to pushing only a language it dominates (perhaps VB-related) and convert more developers into permanent MS-drones
----------
Memoria mihi benigna erit qui eam perscribam
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