What do you all think of an apprenticeship program?

[Albion]

One thing I have noticed with most skilled trades is that before you can become a full tradesmen you must serve an apprenticeship. This means not only do you need to know the skills of the trade you must serve under a Journeymen for 4000 hours (around 4 years) and pass a test at the end to get your card.

I think this would be a great idea for the IT industry in the future. What do you all think?

-al

 

[CajunCenturion]

I would rather see the IT industry return to that of a quality profession instead of a skilled trade.

Good Luck
--------------
As a circle of light increases so does the circumference of darkness around it. - Albert Einstein

 

[svanels]

Who is going to qualify the mentor? IT is big field, skilled in what? splicing network cables?

Steven van Els
SAvanEls@cq-link.sr

 

[jack1955]

I think an apprentice program is a great idea. I have been suggesting it for a while. My father is a master plumber and I don't see much difference between that and IT. I was mentored for a while when I started and I liked it. But my mentor and the company parted ways and I became more skilled on my own.

 

[dilettante]

I agree. What most people now consider "IT" is more of a skilled trade anyway. One of the things that hurt professionals in the field was techs trying to promote themselves as "professionals." I blame MS as much as anyone, they oversold LAN admin types in order to promote their vision of LAN-based computing.

As computer use proliferated it impacted more and more people (including management). They were unprepared, and had no idea there were skill tiers involved in different job types. Widespread disenchantment with what "IT" folk actually do has come about as people became more comfortable with computers. This has led to an overreaction, and probably contributes to things like offshoring to reduce costs in software development.

Check out

http://www.bls.gov/oco/home.htm

for some good info. Look under the job-cluster links at right for "professional and related" as well as "installation and related" to find various IT jobs.

I suspect many employers today don't have a clue how various types of IT jobs compare on skill and education requirements and pay ranges.

 

[guestgulkan]

Here in the UK when I was a lad, taking an apprentiship was the way to learn a skilled job.
Somewhere along the line, this whole system all but vanished, and the general standard of workmanship dropped.
Now and again I hear talk about reviving it.
It was a sad loss.

 

[pddxr]

I would be very curious to see a plan on how that would work.

 

[petey]

The problem is IT engineering isn't exactly centered around people skills. Plus programmers tend to base their self worth on being the only guy who knows the inner workings of the system; why share it and so deprecate yourself? Mentoring relationships in IT, when they do occur, are usually pretty fragile things.

http://www.drpeterjones.com/

"News and views of some obscure guy"

 

[mapleleaf]

Mentoring sometimes works and sometimes it doesn't !!.

Years ago, I was working in a Western Canada bank running PICK reports. The system was running slower and slower and needed maintenance. My boss would not pay for the $7000 System Engineers course, so with the help of a friend in the local dealers office, I taught myself systems maintenance on their test system during the evenings. It paid off, since my salary doubled in two years

Fast foward to last year. For 13 years I had worked in a large TO based food processor supporting the Servers, Users and the very critical DOS based dealer handheld order system.

It wasn't that complex, 4 batch files and a couple of REXX programs.

One day, my boss hired a new MCSE and a lady with a degree in programming and asked me to "teach" them the HH system, in case I "got hit by a bus".

After three weeks, they were finally able to descibe what each line did in the programs.

Two weeks later, I was "let go". My boss told me that he could get two for the price of one !!

I find now that I am either UNDER or OVER qualified for positions and I'm told over and over, that it's easier to reload systems than actually troubleshoot them.

Tis fun out there ...

Ian

 

[Onyxpurr]

I am graduating this Friday from Devry, although I've been working in the field for quite sometime now, and one of the nice things of that university is that I had to take on a Senior Project. During that time, me and 3 other CIS students had to work with an outside person or company to develop a website, database, or vb project for the customer. We did everything from documentation to implmentation. It really did help. Another thing is that at Devry I did evrything hands on. I had at least one hour lab scheduled for two hours lecture, although for a majority of my time there it was the other way around (2:1).

 

[dogbert2]

Seems kind of a shame, Mapleleaf, but i'm sure that when something big breaks down at that place, the owner had better pray that the staff knows how to fix it.

I've done consulting for $$$ when replacement people replaced long time employees (because they cost less), as i've often told owners and managers, you get what you pay for.

 

[mapleleaf]

dogbert2,

I've decided to go back to school, even though I'm 53, and get an up-to-date MCSE and focus on Security, since I see IT heading in that direction.

I'd agree that an apprenticeship program would be a good idea. It would put value back into certs and reward those who actually spend the time learning the craft.

Ian

 

[jsteph]

If we use the term 'skilled trade', how long before we unionize?
--jsteph

 

[jsteph]

...unionize...which of course makes the unfair assumption that the skill is a commodity...
Is it a commodity? I don't think so, but management often does. And if you look at other 'skilled trades', ie plumbers--they are treated as a commodity, they all make the $30 per hr or whatever, but some are excellent and some are horrible. Same as IT.
--jsteph

 

[guestgulkan]

Are you talking to yourself jsteph ??
First sign of madness you know

 

[jsteph]

...yes...but what gets me is when I talk to myself and disagree and start an argument...that's madness!!
--jsteph

 

[longhair]

jsetph,

only madness or a problem if you loose the argument
[bigcheecks]

regards,

longhair