What are IT Geeks doin in the telcom business 25

[firefoxfire]

I am wondering what everyones experience is with these IT geeks that think they belong in the telcom business simply because they can plug an IP or VOIP telephone set into a router.

I keep hearing complaints from people all over the place that they are promised the world from these guys and they get nothing but excuses from lost and poor connections to system and networks that are continually off line.

I hear that the features and services are never correctly configured and that training is very poor or the customer is just given a manual or directed to a web site for help.

These guys are just not telephone people and have no idea how proper cable management works let alone the proper needs of the customers.

They introduce and install equipment that is overwhelming to the customers and their employees with to many features and complicated menus to work with etc.. They are trying to force a telephone to do the work of a computer or Laptop.

And the attitude I get from these guys is usually paranoid, unreliable and uncooperative to say the least.

What is your experience with these guys getting into the telcom business?

Thanks

 

[IPGuru]

They are great
We get so much new business taking over & fixing their mess


I do not Have A.D.D. im just easily, Hey look a Squirrel!

 

[SYQUEST]

Yes, and Cisco thinks they invented TELEPHONY!

....JIM....

 

[FireFighter78]

I am both "IT geek" (I prefer IT nerd) and "switch hack" here. My supervisor wants to do the VOIP thing and fortunately he hasn't put it in my budget. I am quite happy with my out of date Option 11 with no VOIP capabilities.

Keep my network free of my telephones!

 

[hawks]

Q: Why don't my phone work?
A: IT made some changes to the network over the weekend.

 

[IPGuru]

A2) Microsoft made changes to your computer & network that your IT dept don't even know about!

I do not Have A.D.D. im just easily, Hey look a Squirrel!

 

[hawks]

Good point IPGruru I forgot about updates and things of that nature.

 

[Delster]

VoIP is all very well but the network needs to be much better managed when it has voice packets going across it.

Add to that the fact that computers don't have anywhere near the uptime as the older style PBX units.

IPvoice has it's place but it's not as good at the larger end of the scale as the legacy systems.

I've mostly been the person installing the IP systems and I got my wings on a large (15k extension) ericsson MD110 system so hopefully my customers have been happy with them.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
umm,it IS supposed to do that, right??

 

[jknichols]

LOL, I've heard several variations of a joke comparing Computers to Cars - "If Automotive technology advanced like Computers, we'd all be driving $1000 cars that got 400 miles per gallon; unfortunately we'd also get used to them stalling at least once a week for no apparent reason". The same comparison could be made to computers and phones,

Give me my old reliable Dedicated phone system any day. In fact I woulun't mind going back to the 1A2 System we outgrew 20 years ago.

 

[SYQUEST]

My 1A2 KTS is alive and working well! No software to update, no backups to do... Just maybe a 51A lamp now and then...

....JIM....

 

[Mamoose]

Need parts for a 1A?
I'm getting ready to axe one.
One phone only.

 

[jeffmoss26]

Cisco...Can I Still Call Out?

jeff moss

 

[KE407122]

I was there for the Digital revolution and now am well entrenched in the IP revolution; which is quaintly reminiscent of a BORG assimillation or the spread of fascism in the thirties. I hope to be long retired before the next one.



KE407122
'Who is this guy named Lo Cel and why does he keep paging me?'

 

[Sympology]

Odd,
we have dozens of Computer based softswitches, linking all over the world, using IP phones, which have far lower failure rates and problems that meridians + ISDN + analogue phone

We had far more issues with ISDN failures and legacy systems than IP based systems.
Not that the IP systems had no faults, but being built on fault tolerant networks, if we lost a complete area, we only lost a few calls.

As with anything, you get what you pay for. Stick IP on a cheap network, and get cheap result.

Robert Wilensky:
We've all heard that a million monkeys banging on a million typewriters will eventually reproduce the entire works of Shakespeare. Now, thanks to the Internet, we know this is not true.

 

[OzzieGeorge]

Sympology

The only way a voip system can even approach the mean time before failure of a PABX is to have multiple redundancy! Put that into a pabx and it makes a voip solution look truly pathetic! I personally work on single processor systems 30 years old that have had less than 8 hours down time (if not less) in their entire working lifetime! How many IP networks can compare with that?

 

[Oldtimephoneguy]

Good day. As my name implies, I started in "IT" in 1978. Back in the days of old electro mechanical Central Offices and PBX's. Then a new type of PBX came out called a ROLM. It revolutionized voice communications. After that we've been flying by the seat of our pants. I'm still an old time phone dude that has come a long way but at my age and mileage it gets harder to learn alot of the new stuff. But I will say this as was indicated at the beginning of this post, most Telecom people today know little about Telecom solutions as in what "fits" best for the customer and makes their job easier. I've been by-passed in alot of the planning and decision making over the years and it often back fires on everyone. Old coyotes like me can help solve issues if asked but many of the "new" Telecom professionals won't ask because it makes them look bad when their big problem has an elementary solution. I too think the legacy systems are/were better. We have a mix of Cisco CM, Unity, IPCC and NEC systems. All I can say is that the NEC systems run on their own. Our 2400 monster is 10 years old and in the eight years I've been here it's NEVER been down! We have a VOIP NEC 2000 IPS that's been in 6 years and it NEVER has been off line because of it's own fault. It's either Telco, a UPS or a Cisco product that dumps it. When our new Management team came in I encouraged them to look at the NEC VOIP platfofm (as they call it now. Damn it, it's a system not a platform! A platform is what you stand on) but they only heard of Cisco and that's what they wanted. Another thing! You don't deploy things. You can install or deliver them! The military deploys things! Things like soldiers and equipment! Boy you guys got me started and I have more to say but they just told me to check the network. The trouble is I don't know which one. Is it CBS, CNN, FOX, TNT or what? They asked about Broad band and I said I thought the Supremes were great in their day. But Heart, those broads can sing so I'll stay with them. They wanted the website checked. Spiderman never has to check his website and he had the first one!!

Frank. City of Cape Coral, Florida

 

[kwbMitel]

To answer the question straight, from my experience.

The phone industry was stagnating while the IT boom was taking off. Numerous customers of mine would spend 7 digit budgets upgrading their networks / servers / pc's while a 5 Digit upgrade to their phones would make them choke.

Along came VOIP. A way for telephony to access some of that IT budget. The IT guys thought 6 digit upgrades for phone systems was a bargain.

Win Win - supposedly

**********************************************
What's most important is that you realise ... There is no spoon.

 

[firefoxfire]

The old systems were stable because they were built to Bell System standards, great standards that have allowed these hulks to work under extreme conditions for decades. A local company in town just bought a reconditioned Merlin Magix with VM and AA and it looks great and is working just fine.

Just because it is old technology does not mean that the functions and features are outdated. Some customer like a pizza parlor or small real estate office even a small call center will work just find with the older stuff as long as the installer knows how to install, program and most important train.

I prefer Nortel and Partner myself. These new VOIP systems rely on "bandwidth water pressure" as I call it. Flush the network toilet and if you are in the telephone or P.C. shower you are going to get a shock ( down time or slow time ).

I specialize in Rush and Emergency Night and Weekend work so when I get a call it is for a problem or a down system and I am expected to quickly and permanently solve that problem, usually from other vendors or IT guys messes.

As far as I am concerned telephone customer should not ever be bothered with nor should their businesses and employees have to be subject to problems with their telephone service.

I expect myself to to install and maintain telcom systems that work 100% of the time. Installing the right equipment the correct way with safe guards like back up power ( UPS ) will provide that level of service to customers.

 

[Westi]

after reading all that I have to get my 2 cents worth into the mix
I am also an old[er] guy as I started 1984 in the phone business when phone systems still made a noise when you picked up a receiver on an extension (good old days) and have had to learn a lot since I work on an IP capable phone system since 2003.
Installing systems properly is the next important thing after having a good product the problem is that a lot of customers see the bottom line and tell you "I can get the same system on the Internet for half that" or "I have a quote for a similar system for half" etc. and then sales starts cutting cost to get the deal and techs get stuck with the mess (wanted to say something else but don't want to offend the TT gods) because there is no properly sized UPS or someone found a PoE switch that is half price and put it into the sales mix.
Having to rely on customer provided IT people that (sorry if I offend good IT guys here) have no clue and couldn't find their behind in the dark with a flashlight is not making our job easier. I do mostly small to medium size business and can't speak for larger companies so that might be the reason why the controller or the receptionist sometimes is also the IT person Ahhhhhhhh
They then know a guy that can program the switch they just bought as a refurb on ebay and are wondering why the IP phones are sounding a bit bubbly at times. We have an IT guy in our company that I have never seen even breaking a sweat when things go belly up and that is knowledgeable as can be and he mentioned once that VoIP was a bad idea to start and has not gotten much better since. IP was not designed to deliver real time speech but is now forced to do so, I have to agree.
Plugging in an IP phone and have to wait until it finally boots up to make a phone call is just another of my pet peeves with VoIP going hand in hand with the fact that you rely on someone else to not mess up your phones.
Wow that felt good, haha

Joe W.

16082

 

[Sympology]

But VoIP based systems are WAY more flexible than trad systems. What do you do when you call centre is closed due to a fire, or the staff get snowed in at home?
We'll we've carried on working, some from home, others scattered all over the place in other offices.
So we had 90% capacity working despite the call centere being shut?

So how do you do that with a 20 year old Option 81 with hardwired kit?

Office move are an absolute breeze, relocate to new offices in minutes using the same PBX's (I know we've done it twice this month alone), we didn't even have to do anything. The desktop guys plugged in the phones and they were up and running.
Why prat around sticking in a new PBX, spending hours wiring it up, then re wiring becuause a moron manager decides at the last second to swap a few memebers of staff around.

We have 6 office hundreds of miles apart with no PBX and no IT staff. if they do minor office moves, they unplug and move to another desk.
If they need a new phone on an empty desk we configure it (5 mins) and stick it in the post.

People now expect to be able to work from home or any office, use IM to communicate and see if their collegues onthe phone. management want to see who is calling in and out and if they are hitting SLA's

Don't get me wrong, things like the 81's are bloody good bit's of kit, one of ours got hit by a lightning stike, blew out several cards, but just kept on working.

But times are moving on, businesses need to be flexible and costs are a major concern.

In a happy land we'd have the reliabity of the good old fork lift instalations, but the flexibnity of the IP kit.

Robert Wilensky:
We've all heard that a million monkeys banging on a million typewriters will eventually reproduce the entire works of Shakespeare. Now, thanks to the Internet, we know this is not true.