What a pain??? Or is it? (sorry for the duplicate post)

[kholladay]

We are an Avaya BP who have recently found our way into the Nortel base. I am quite sure this is going to be a major ordeal but I need to know. If someone knows NOTHING about Nortel and is now required to know how to do basic admin tasks (reset passwords, move extensions, etc), on EVERY version of Norstar and BCM how complicated is that?

On Avaya, for example, if someone came to me and said I know IP Office 1.0 I would say to them that they know the basics but they have a good deal to learn.

I just need to know, from a Nortel perspective, is there any carry over from one platform or one version to the next? Or are each very unique?

Kyle Holladay / IPOfficeHelp.com
ACSS/ACIS/APSS Avaya SME Communications
APDS Avaya Data
MCP/MCTS Exchange 2007/2010
Adtran ATSA, Aruba ACMA

"Thinking is the hardest work there is, which is the probable reason why so few engage in it." - Henry Ford

 

[curlycord]

I dont get the questions.

As with any system MAC's are not that complicated.
Versions are fixes and/or new features with some programming enhancements at times.
Platforms usually have their own name such as Merlin or IP office etc.





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curlycord

http://www.curlycord.com

 

[curlycord]

I forgot to ask...what is your issue that is causing "Pain"?

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curlycord

http://www.curlycord.com

 

[QueBall780]

Lots of common concepts in the Nortel platforms.

The older stuff where primarily you would be administering it using the keys on the phone mostly works the same way. Just newer revisions have more features to look through.

The newer BCM can be managed both the older phone set programming way or with a newer GUI console interface. The concepts behind what is going on doesn't really change much

I will say that programming a Norstar platform up through the BCM can be confusing and there are some definite "Nortel" ways of doing things that don't always make sense but that's just how it is. It's the mindset that is hardest to learn. The way Nortel arranges things into lines, trunks, sets, target lines, etc is usually the bigger hurdle to overcome.

 

[kholladay]

The question is this. On Avaya if I know how to do a task, any task, on a platform regardless of the version, hardware, software, etc, I know how to do it on all within that platform.

So if I know how to change a mailbox password, move an extension, etc on say a BCM 1.0 (granted I don't know if that is a valid version), does that mean I know how to do it on 2.0, 8.0, 10.0? Or on any hardware versions?

Kyle Holladay / IPOfficeHelp.com
ACSS/ACIS/APSS Avaya SME Communications
APDS Avaya Data
MCP/MCTS Exchange 2007/2010
Adtran ATSA, Aruba ACMA

"Thinking is the hardest work there is, which is the probable reason why so few engage in it." - Henry Ford

 

[ironhorse17]

Answer to your question is yes.

I know what you mean I have worked on phone systems since 1978, but when I go to the Avaya forums it is all Greek to me the terminology they use, so if you come from Avaya the world must look different.

 

[QueBall780]

Well sorta.

I mean you will have to understand the concepts first and there are some minor differences between versions. There are basically 2 major differences in the BCM platform.
Windows NT or Linux platform. Really old BCM hardware running version 1, 2, 3 were using the Windows NT base operating system and it's got some major differences in administration interfaces. Most of these have been upgraded to either newer hardware or to the Linux based Release 4 software upgrade over the years so I can imagine you may never even see something this old stuff. The common cross over point is the BCM400 because earlier released version were windows NT but the last version was release 4 on linux. So you may see a BCM400 with version 3.6 Windows NT but I found most were upgraded.

Newer updates and hardware run a Linux based version of the software that is pretty similar across all it's versions.
BCM 200/400 Release 4 and all BCM50 and BCM450 hardware runs on Linux platform and is by far the most common hardware and software you will see. There are new features on newer releases but the basic configuration method has not changed and the core of the programming stays exactly the same.

The Norstar Compact ICS, and Modular ICS systems are also very common pieces of equipment in the field. I see these things everywhere, my kids will probably see these things still being used when they grow up. The world may never see the Nortel Norstar ICS line go out of use. (Ok maybe someday) These are the older basic digital systems that for the most part you will likely be doing set based programming to configure. From the oldest version to the newest version the programming is pretty much done the same way. Once you have the basic concepts figured out you will be find you have no major problems working on these.

 

[curlycord]

Agreed - Yes

But is it not the same with Avaya?
Merlin 1.0 is the same as Merlin 2.0?
Partner 1.0 same as 1.2 ?
IP office 1.0 is same as 8.0?
etc etc?



FYI Nortel has these platforms:

PBX:
SLI
Option
Succession
For the most part same programming

Key:
Norstar
BCM

Same programming via telset but for PC the BCM has GUI/EM vs Norstar having NRU






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curlycord

http://www.curlycord.com

 

[DigitelD]

kholladay, now you know how the Nortel people feel with being "forced" to go Avaya. It has been difficult sometimes.

SHK Certified (School of Hard Knocks)
NCSS, ATSP/IP

 

[tball1]

no one was forced to go to avaya. It is not his fault that nortel exectives were so incompetent

 

[biv343]

BCM 50, 450 and BCM 200/400/1000 on release 4.0 all use element manager and have a common look and feel. BCM 200/400/1000 on 3.7 and below use a web interface which is different than element manager, but has the same concepts. Norstar is a different animal as it is set based admin, unless you have a RAD and can use Norstar Remote Utilities.

As a rule, if you know BCM fairly well you can get through the Norstar. If you know the Norstar, you have the basics you need to understand BCM. If you know the old BCMs, you can get through Element Manager. If you only know the newer BCMs, working on a 2.0 or 2.5 BCM 1000 can make you scratch your head as you drill through the unified manager tree.

I hated Avaya when I first had to start working on that equipment (specifically IPO) as I understood the Nortel way of doing things. I'd expect it would be similar going in reverse. If anything, I now think the Avaya systems are easier to manage now that I understand it better.

 

[kholladay]

Here is why I am asking. And forgive me for being the alien in your forum. My boss is telling me that he thinks, based on something he was told by a gypsy that "sold him" a list of Nortel customers that "if you know one you know them all" so it should be cake for me to teach the entire support team how to support this.

In my experience however support is different. Knowing how to change a password or move a user on a 1.0 system does not inherently give you the knowledge to perform such a taks on an 8.0 system for example.

I think that the Nortel BCM was more akin to the Avaya Definity/Communications Manager which was far more complex than the IP Office to which we are accustom. I just want to know what type of undertaking this is going to be.

And BTW for any of you who have had the opportunity to visit the IP Office forums I thank you an extra amount for your help.

Kyle Holladay / IPOfficeHelp.com
ACSS/ACIS/APSS Avaya SME Communications
APDS Avaya Data
MCP/MCTS Exchange 2007/2010
Adtran ATSA, Aruba ACMA

"Thinking is the hardest work there is, which is the probable reason why so few engage in it." - Henry Ford

 

[DigitelD]

tball, it is certainly not his fault nor was it ours. I think you misunderstand my use of "forced". That is why it was in quotes. I was only trying to say that it has been hard on us as it is on those coming from Avaya working on Nortel stuff. I wasn't trying to be sarcastic.

Biv, you are right. After learning what I know about Avaya I like many things about the IP Office and VM Pro better than the BCM.

SHK Certified (School of Hard Knocks)
NCSS, ATSP/IP

 

[biv343]

In reality, not much changed except supported phone models on most versions of BCM. CallPilot manager looks the same from release 2.5 through BCM 450 release 6. On a BCM 50 release 2, you couldn't use 1200 series IP sets. You could use them on 3.0. Not much changed over the years on BCM. Reporting for Contact Center (RCC) is similar to Avaya CCR and can be a PITA.

You obviously know telephony so the terms are similar for the most part. Target lines are similar to incoming call routes. Lots of BCMs and Norstars are square systems. Hunt groups work a heck of a lot better in IPO than BCM/Norstar. You won't find as much flexibility with BCM CallPilot as you will with VM Pro, but CallPilot is nicer than IPO embedded voicemail. I like park on Nortel better than IPO.

Best I can offer is get a BCM 50 or something and play with it. You'll get the hang of it soon enough.

 

[kholladay]

Please trust me that I am not trying to take your customers. In fact my own business is built entirely on supporting other business partners under their own brand. We at Prime Services LLC do not have but perhaps a hand full of our own customers and instead have build a business of supporting other business partners in supporting their customers using their own name and brand. I am NOT here to take business away from you. I, rather, have one customer who is trying to grow their Nortel base and am simply asking on their behalf. In fact if I can learn this I would be happy to help out anyone else who needs assistance.

Kyle Holladay / IPOfficeHelp.com
ACSS/ACIS/APSS Avaya SME Communications
APDS Avaya Data
MCP/MCTS Exchange 2007/2010
Adtran ATSA, Aruba ACMA

"Thinking is the hardest work there is, which is the probable reason why so few engage in it." - Henry Ford

 

[DigitelD]

I don't think anyone here thinks you would be after our customers. This is a huge playground and we welcome you to it. One of the biggest issues I have found is the difference in the Park feature. It is more simplified with Nortel. With the IP Office you can do all of the changes including password resets from Manager (Except for AA in VM Pro). With the BCM you must launch CallPilot Manager to make VM changes. You manage the AA, the options, and all the mailboxes from CallPilot Manager. The VM is very simple to manage. The problem you may run into is, as it has already been said, there are many Rls 3.X BCM's out there. Element Manager is more simple to use, the Windows NT 3.X BCM's can be a little tricky navigating through the menu's. I like IP Office Manager so much more.

My offer still stands.

SHK Certified (School of Hard Knocks)
NCSS, ATSP/IP

 

[curlycord]

A mini break down

PBX:
SLI
Option
Succession

Same programming software - crosstalk, hyper, procom etc


Key:
Norstar - same programming via telset except that heading names and the orders changed up one time on early release of CICS and MICS and DR. 5.1 on all others.
Norstar = 3X8, 6X16 ,8X24, CICS, MICS

BCM
1000/200/400 - up to 3.7 uses Browser programming
400 on 4.0 uses Element Manager for programming
50/450 uses Element Manager for programming


Enterprise Edge 1000 - 1.0
Enterprise Edge 1000 - 1.1
Enterprise Edge 1000 - 2.0
Enterprise Edge 1000 - 2.5
Enterprise Edge 1000 - 3.0
Business Communications Manager - 200/400 - 3.0
Business Communications Manager - 200/400 - 3.5
Business Communications Manager - 200/400 - 3.6
Business Communications Manager - 200/400 - 3.7
Business Communications Manager - 200/400 - 4.0
Business Communications Manager - 450 - Rls 1
Business Communications Manager - 50 - Rls 1
Business Communications Manager - 50 - Rls 2
Business Communications Manager - 50 - Rls 3
Business Communications Manager - 50 - Rls 4
Business Communications Manager - 450 - Rls 5
Business Communications Manager - 50 - Rls 5
Business Communications Manager - 450 - Rls 6
Business Communications Manager - 50 - Rls 6





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curlycord

http://www.curlycord.com

 

[biv343]

I cut my teeth and lost a lot of blood on Enterprise Edge 1.0 and 1.01. Nothing like the glory days when loading patches and "upgrades" showed you a DOS window with a flashing cursor for at least an hour or so and no indication of what was happening except a hard drive light that would flash now and agai. Those 8.4GB Seagate hard drives were tough. I still have a few Edge systems running 2.5 that are still going, untouched, after 10 plus years. Just don't let the hard drive stop spinning for any length of time. The original EE 1000's were tanks, never had a hardware failure I can recall. Then came the PW810 motherboards, base function trays, MSC cards missing a PLL jumper wire that caused spontaneous core resets, bad MBM power connectors, and other nightmares from a service perspective. The software got more reliable, but the hardware issues sure made up for it. Luckily most of that was corrected in due time.

Sorry for going off topic. The Enterprise Edge 1000 I saw listed brought back some memories.

 

[madwok]

Hi KHolladay,

If you are comfortable with IPO, it would not take you long to get the hang of the newer BCM . For older NT based BCM and Norstar , the stuff is same but just in different place !

Till 6 months ago,personally I can not even spell IPO but I am getting pretty comfortable once I had the demo kit and play with it every day during lunch break .

Basic admin task as you mentioned ( reset password, change name , swap , move ext .... ) for Norstar and BCM can be learned within days if you have a good teacher . Best bet is to get a CICS Norstar or a BCM50 and play with it. The basic concept is there , just the lingo and ways of doing thing is a bit different . That's all .

Anyway, here are some equivalent stuff between IPO and N * that you can start off with :

IPO manager - BCM element manager
ARS - Route is closest thing
ICR - Target line is closest thing
Short codes - Nothing equivalent but combination of various hings such as feature codes, speed dial, filter, route ...
huntgroup with call waiting - huntgroup broadcast
user and ext - DN
VM pro - Call Pilot
autoattendant - CCR
NSixxxxx - OLI xxxxx for caller id
Ground start trunk - No way in Norstar / BCM
TG out - Line pool A, B ....
TG in - Line #
SSA/Monitor - BCM monitor , trunk metric ...
Call server /gateway - S1 , S2
SD card - hard drive ,CMOS , Capacitor
FK # - System id
Coverage ext - answer DN
......

By the way, thanks for all the valuable postings that you had done in the Avaya IPO board .

Cheers !

 

[icstech12]

The hardest thing for me to get my head around making the transition to IP Office was the fact you have to save your changes because you are not working on a live system whereas on the BCM's you are. Both have their advantages and disadvantages.

As other posters have mentioned, all the Linux based versions are fairly similar through Element Manager though some of the extension tabs have a slightly different appearance in a BCM Release 4 compared with BCM50 Release 3 for example.

I started on BCM50 Release 1 so cringe a bit when working on Windows-based BCM's simply through unfamiliarity.

Upgrading firmware is so much easier and faster on IP Office compared with loading 2 or 3 CD's worth of info onto a hard drive in a BCM.