WAN or BUST.

[Camacho]

Everything is running smoothly on our little Win2000 network until...
we need to get our remote offices connected to our system.
Per our software vendor, to enable remote connectivity:
-We need to have a Contiguous Frame Relay and necessary firewall installed.
-Bandwidth is at least 128Kbps at each remote site (we have 2).
-At least 256kbps at main server.
-Equip our Win 2000 server with Citrix Metaframe w/ 10 user licences and
10 Terminal Client Access Licenses.
My problem is:
I DON'T KNOW anything about Frame Relay, Citrix, backbone that would provide
256kbps bandwidth. Well, maybe I know a litte because I've been backtracking
on the discussion, reading articles on frame relay forum, Citrix and Cisco.
Still, I need help on the basic hardware needed, installation guides, commands,
the works. Please mention router brands and models. Flavors of Citrix Metaframe,
and others.

Our database application software vendor support is limited to their software.
I turn to you guys on the what-not.
Outsourcing consultants is out of the question. My boss will not like it.
This would be my first venture on WAN so I'm very excited to learn.

 

[lanceja]

Question for you: Can you get DSL into your home and remote sites? If so, a DSL connection can give you up to 1Mbps for less than a frame line. That would also decrease the cost of the router. A Cisco router can cost from $2000 or more while a DSL router/Firewall can run you around $100-$200.

Since you are only looking at 3 sites (1home and 2remote) you could get DSL at each site, then buy 3 Linksys BEFVP41 or Netgear FVS318 routers (I use these that is why I suggest these) that can do a Virtual Private Network (VPN) between your sites. These routers also are Firewalls. You would then get all 3 sites on the Internet, setup the VPN connections and voila' you are connected.

You then have your remote offices connect to the Terminal server (w/Metaframe) using the Citrix client software and you can go to work.

Also, unless it has changed, you will need to make sure you add (I would say) at least 20Mb RAM/user to your 2000 server. IE: If you are looking at 10 users, then you need to add an additional 200Mb of RAM to your server to handle the users.

Hopefully this will help you. Good luck to you.

 

[lanceja]

One reason that you might want to go to Frame instead of DSL/Internet/VPN is that the Frame Line is much more secure than the VPN. This is because it is setup similar to a direct connect between your offices which noone else has access.

Of course that is what the VPN is supposed to do also.

Good luck.

 

[tahoe2]

We have essentially the same setup as you are planning.
2 outlying offices with T-1 dropped in, Ascend Pipeline routers on each end running into a W2K box running Citrix MetaFrame 1.8 and Terminal Services. Currently we have a Linux box set up as a firewall, but we are looking into a Pix box.
Every PC on Citrix is set up with a static IP, and WINS, DNS, GATEWAY and SNMask are all configured. You can also use thin clients in your outlying offices once you have Citrix installed.
Once it is set up, is it very easy to administer.

Hope this helps!

Corie

 

[enigma174]

I think i'm in a similar situation - the first big trip into the land of WANs

My situation is that I've just set up the first of two remote offices. This one was just a single PC and a printer (possibly more pcs later) at a remote warehouse. We have ADSL connections (2Mb at head office and 256Kb at warehouse) at both the head office and that warehouse, and have linux boxes sorting out a VPN connection between them.
While this is adequate for a small warehouse, it has highlighted some issues to look out for. The next remote office will be moving an entire depatrment to a separate office.

The problems with the warehouse have mostly been speed. I can't have roaming profiles working off the domain controller in the head office, even an almost empty test profile stayed on the blank screen between the login dialog dissappearing and that "Loading your settings" dialog appearing. Clearly there is some communications problem here.
Secondly we have our central ERP database based at head office, while this is usable for the storeman at the warehouse, it is unacceptable for anyone who will be doing processing in that program all day.

So, this has left me wondering about other ways to do things for the new office.
Some of the things i've been thinking of are having a local domain controller slash file server at the remote site - i think this is a must as files need to be backed up, and staff at the remote office won't bear the lag of loading from SMB shares over a slow network connection. The downside is the extra cost, and this still won't speed up the database without going to a more expensive line.
The other scenario was to fill that office with thin terminal services clients. having staff use a terminal services client on their home computers has proved quite successful, even over a dial up connection, and accessing the ERP database is a lot faster than having the ERP client on the remote computer. But there's still a lot of lag in the connection and we have people working on quite graphical marketing material.

so that's my experiences in the land of ADSL WANing. I guess, like Camacho, i'm looking for a bit of help deciding on the direction to go here. Is frame relay really the magic bullet?? Should i have a separate domain controller for each remote site?? bear in mind we are a small company and will only be moving about five or six users to the remote site. Is frame relay overkill?

Any help, or sharing of experences (what works, and what dosn't) would be greatly appreciated.

--e

 

[Camacho]

Thanks for the all the help and inputs.
Our setup would be:
-2 remotes with one PC and a printer on each site. (similar to enigma174)
-main office will have 6 users
-database app is a Retail Management System
-need for Frame Relay is due to the barcode scanners on the remote sites.
-database app must be installed on the Citrix server. I was given a "guaranteed-problems-to-occur" if done otherwise.

My first choice was DSL (cost-wise, easier implementation) but was advised by the software vendor not to because speed and reliability are essential esp. with barcode scanners...
I still believe DSL would cut it but my head might roll if I pushed it and failmiserably ...oh well.

Next, the Boss is asking me is to submit costing for hardware and software:
Here's what I got.. please fill where I miss.. this is my first time to do WAN:
Database Server: Win2000, 800MHz, 18GB HD RAID configured, 512MB RAM
I have other servers that handle the mail and can setup one for Termnal Server.
Router: I have my eyes set on Cisco 2610XM. Do I need router at every site?
CSU/DSU : What are they for?
There should be more I guess..

Software:
Citrix Metaframe XPs (I'll start with the basic 5 users)
Symantec pcAnywhere (the vendor wants this thrown in)
Terminal Service licensing (might get it free if I run WinXP on the remote sites)

Broadband:
Frame Relay over T1 (I'll be contacting the local telcos/provider here)

Again, thanks for the support... If anyone needs help figuring out a problem on a Lexmark, Brother, Samsung printers.. let me know. That's my cup of tea.

 

[lanceja]

Camacho,
To answer your question, a CSU/DSU simply put converts the signal coming in from your frame line into a signal usable for the router. You can buy a Cisco 3600 (I believe) that is modular that can have a CSU/DSU module installed which would be cheaper than buying them seperately. You need to talk to your provider and see if they actually think you will need a CSU/DSU.

You said that the database has to be on the Citrix server. You do know that is the terminal server? Citrix is an addon to the Terminal server for client connection. It is not a server by itself.

Both Camacho and Enigma174

Have you looked into the costs of Frame lines because they are expensive. They can go from anywhere from $300 - $1000/month. We are currently using a full T1 line to the Internet that is costing us $1000/month.

Enigma174
You could look into setting up Backup Domain controllers at each of your remote sites. Let the backup Domain controller handle local logins. If you setup a Primary Domain controller at each site, then you are getting into trusts which are not fun to do.

We used to have 6 Remote sites connected through frame with each site having a BDC. Had no problems with logins.

What I would do, is do a test at one of your remote sites. Setup a BDC at home office. Take the BDC to the remote site and see what happens. You will have to make sure it is connected back to your home site. If using dsl, then have a VPN connection setup back to home site. See if it works.

Hopefully this helped the two of you out.

Good Luck.

 

[tahoe2]

We have a single domain that spans 4 offices and we use a very large software system that takes up three servers, and our accounting SW uses a different server. Nothing is loaded onto our Citrix server except our Office Suite, TS, IIS (we allow logon from the internet) and Symantec. Everything else runs off other servers, no problems.

You'll need routers at the other locations unless you go with DSL. At our location with a single user we use DSL, and we actually have 2 workstations with printers set up with no router, however, we do not use bar coders.

Also, you'll need more memory than that in your Citrix server. Go with at least a gig, because each user will need at least 20 meg just to run their profile, not to mention running apps.
Our Citrix server has an average of 6 - 10 users at any one time. It's a Dual P3 800 with 2 gig of RAM and the processors are usually hovering around 40%, Memory at 25% (just the way I like it...).

Hope this helps,
Corie