VoIP vs "traditional"?

[archalot]

Its time (way past time) to replace our outdated Executone 228 system. Office has about 55 extensions. We currently have 2 T1's with around 24 voice lines and 512K data. An important part of our business is a small call center with 4-5 agents.

I'm trying to decide whether or not to entertain VoIP solutions, or stick with the "tried-and-true" switches.

Suggestions and/or warnings to be aware of would be greatly appreciated.

Archalot
Columbia, SC

 

[paterson]

VOIP is the new wave and I don't think it is going away. Pretty much all manufacturers have some kind of VOIP solution in their line up.

Mitel has two products that may interest you. The first is the 200ICP. It has a built in voicemail system as well as ACD (automatic call distribution) that would work very well for your 4-5 agents! Also, you can use some of the embedded voicemail ports as RAD/RAN devices instead of external devices. The ACD is just a licence that needs to be activated.

The other is the 3300ICP and it pretty much does the same as the 200ICP, its just supports large scale businesses 100+ users typically upto 1400 users.

 

[johnpoole]

cisco call manager, they just came out with a smaller line. if you like all your networks boxes to be softwared by the same crew, cisco is worth a look

john poole
bellsouth business
columbia,sc

 

[phoneguy55]

I hate the cisco solution. Windows based solutions stink. With the patches and virus and rebooting. I just can't take it. Stay away from Windows, they have no place in telephony.

Got this from the octelwarrior on another sight. Enjoy.

http://img282.imageshack.us/my.php?...lization1zq.jpg

Also, look at this tread.

http://www.pbxtech.info/showthread.php?t=2927

Look at the Avaya Definty Prologix. Probably the most expensive, but a very well done hybrid solution based on the definity platform that has been around since before I was born.

 

[SpongeVoIP]

For this type of operation you need to consider IP Office or Mitel 3300 (Mitel CX / ICP200, depending on geographic). If you more looking at hybrid, IP Office is a way to go. If you want to go the VoIP way, choose Mitel. Mitel has much stronger call center routing capabilities in the switch itself. If you need to go for management information, the additional 61xx is one of the best around....and I've seen a few. Besides that Mitel can easily deliver remote agents with the Teleworker is needed. You get the idea, if you go for IP go Mitel. Cisco is way back looking at call routing functionality, especially for these smaller environements.

 

[jneiberger]

For an environment this size with 4-5 call center agents I would also suggest taking a look at Mitel. Cisco might be worth a look but I think you'd need to get IP Contact Center Express to handle your call center. With just a few call center agents, the Mitel PBX can probably do everything you need right out of the box.

I wouldn't count Cisco out, though. It might be worth giving a call to your Cisco account manager. You probably have one even if you don't know it. Or just call a local Cisco VAR. They may have some solutions that would work just great for you.

 

[archalot]

Thank you all for your input. I am going to pursue the VoIP options, and have called Cisco and Avaya vendors today.

 

[jneiberger]

You really should call Mitel, too. They're a smaller company but their newer products might be exactly what you're looking for.

Good luck, and let us know which way you decide!

 

[johnpoole]

i've installed all three and would go cisco mitel nortel way before i looked at avaya.. some of their dist will not even demo their voip due to calls dropping

john poole
bellsouth business
columbia,sc

 

[mattKnight]

One other thing to push into the mix....

mitel VOIP is proprietry.... personally I would suggest that you steer clear of all VOIP that isn't standards based!

Take Care

Matt
If at first you don't succeed, skydiving is not for you.

 

[doktor]

I would recommend the Telenium VoIP solution from Vodavi, with its excellent modular design and advanced ACD function. Still keyword as easy to install and operate, are important to us as both installer and user of VoIP telephone systems. Outside the USA, this product is known as LG IPECS.
BR doktor

 

[ISDNman]

There are two areas to consider.

1) Dial tone/LEC. Here you probably want to stay with traditional for now, though if you have your own WAN links you might consider VOIP for inter-PBX links

2) For the local PBX. Here VOIP probably makes more sense, and the riskj is MUCH less. You *should* properly engineer the LAN with the proper Ethernet switches to esure QoS, but even if you don't you may be ok. Since even a 10Base-T LAN has an amazing amount of bandwidth (10 mbps ~/= 6.5 T1s)you'll *probably* be ok.

If the LAN is already in place, consider a system that has phones with a built in switch. These allow you to plug the phone into the exisiting Ethernet jack, and plug the computer into the phone. Otherwise you really need a second Ethernet jack at each desk for the phone.

On the WAN side, you'll want to properly engineer things or you'll be sorry "some day".

In the case of using the public net, this is best for backup or emergency use, IMHO.

On the LEC side be prepared to be a lab rat. Yes, you can save money, but....

I agree with Matt. One of the biggest advantages of VoIP is that you may be able to use phones form diffeent vendors. If this works out the way it should, this will evetually result in major cost settings asopposed to the old proprietary super-expensive telephone set model that has ben around forever. If you don't go with a standards-based solution then you'll never get this advantage. I have to admit I am a cynic, so I have my doubts we'll ever see full compatibility, but we'll see (and IMHO SIP has a better chance than H.323 for this to happen)

Best of luck.

 

[paterson]

We've seen proprietary systems for years in KEY/PBX systems. Manufactures will do this in an effort to keep their customers. Why buy expensive Nortel sets when you could buy cheap Panasonic sets, hahaha.

Be carefull when you say systems like Mitel are proprietary. In a way they are in that only their sets work with their systems and you can only (currently) use IP trunks between Mitel systems. But they still transmit data and do VoIP in full agreement with IEEE standards.

The good thing about having a manufacturer with a "proprietary" system is that they will support you and the applications that you are running on it. If you start mixing manufacturers equipment you will not know who to turn to for help if it is needed.

 

[ISDNman]

BTW, one thing I forgot to mention, the place where VOIP really shines is for your road warriors and work at home folks.

Paterson, not sure what exactly what Mattknight meant, but there certainly are advantages and disadvantages to "proprietary" interfaces.

I'll admit my perspective is very skewed due to my background. The company I work for makes third party equipment, and the biggest request we get is that custoemrs want it to integrate into their PBX/Key system and work just like a office feature phone. The fact that most PBX vendors won't divulge their protocols (this is now changing to a degree)combined with all the different vendors using different (and proprietary) protocols, makes it impossible for us to answer this need for our customers (broadcasters).

ISDN BRI as a common standards-based-interface has helped somewhat, but sadly the standards evolved to be so complex that much of the feature-related stuff is too complicated and therefore not supported. Furthermore USA ISDN BRI is so complicated in general that protocol standards compliance by various vendors is quite problematic.

We are watching VOIP signaling (SIP in particular) waiting to see if there will be standards compliance and interoperability. Within our company we have a debate wheather this holy grail will happen.

The reason we are excited by SIP is that it is NOT based on all the many layers of old teco signaling such as ISDN, and therefore may not grow to be quite as complicated.

cheers

 

[srmega41]

If I can throw my 2 cents in, I really feel the COST benefit is in the multi-site environment where communications between sites use separate networks, i.e. Voice Network and Data Network. This is where you can put hard dollar savings in front of executives for approval.

That being said, the Moves, Adds, and Changes (MAC) argument is hard to calculate unless you have a huge deployment and track those types of costs and time. Plus, every vendor says you can go and plug your IP phone into any jack and it will work, but I don't know too many companies that keep EVERY data drop in their building patched. Things like security get in the way there.

I also believe the standards view is important if you are forced to go with a multi-vendor approach, or if you want to interface with areas like the LEC or internet. Private connections can be proprietary all day long, and most techs like a single interface. I don't know too many techs that like to see several systems interfaced together; if the protocol is standard (SIP, H.323) but you have to bounce between a Mitel system, a Cisco System, then Nortel, the 3COM, etc... you still have to know all those admin interfaces, (OUCH).

Hope I am not jumping in unwanted, I just really think VoIP is like the ulimate possible solution, without anyone really knowing the best way to deploy it. Just look at this thread, many different options and opinions, and probably all of them will work to some degree, in certain environments.

Scott M.

 

[paterson]

Wow, I like your level headed, broadbased view! kudos.

 

[jneiberger]

paterson, you wouldn't say that if you knew him like I do! LOL

(Just kidding! He's my manager. I have to say nice things about him, but I'm sure even he would be disappointed if I let a chance like that slip by.)

 

[mattKnight]

Paterson, not sure what exactly what Mattknight meant

I'll try and explain! AFAIK, the Mitel 3300 provides a telephony over LAN/WAN, however, the protocol used between the PBX and handset is not a standard one (i.e. not H323 or SIP). Obviously you are then tied to using and maintaining Mitel end terminals. I am not sure of how the mitels support IP trunking, but (being a cynic) I'd guess it is proprietry! Of course If you know better - please educate me!

Personally, I would prefer a PBX based on known protocols that leaves you free to choose you own terminals (either IP phones hard or soft or a gateway solution) Sure PBX manufacturers need to generate revenue, but they can still do that by licencing...

Take Care

Matt
If at first you don't succeed, skydiving is not for you.

 

[johnpoole]

to get into scott's post. any system, tdm, voip, mixed is only as good as your worst in house tech. voip forces the marriage of voice techs with data (network) techs. if your inhouse structure is such to allow that, and if you have more then one person that knows all the equiptment, your 100 times better off. i know it's a major task to be good at nortel/cisco/mitel etc, but without a staff that can work end to end, any problem will result in no one taking onwership. you need to depend on in house support, more and more. 90 percent of the voice techs i know, don't touch data, the same is true about data guys. voice to them is new and foreign. that said, realize youcan save money with voip ld/tie, but how much can you save if ti goes down for a few hours a week?

john poole
bellsouth business
columbia,sc

 

[hawks]

We have people at home using voip over DSL, works great most of the time. The only reason I say this is because you had mentioned that you were going to be setting up a call center using voip. Just remember if it is your network you can guaranty bandwidth for voice if the call goes out over the public network there is no guaranties. Voice quality could get choppy at times (cell phone quality). Which in our case is fine because we just use it to call back to the office. Just my 2 cents.....