VoIP justification

[Rookcr]

Good morning,

I have gone thru an extensive research of a new telephone system for 7 branches including the main location with rougly 100 users. I had decided to go full VoIP at all locations including our main site which has roughly 50 users or half of the phones. I now have a vendor completly pushing voip at my remote sites and a "digital system" at my main location. Part of the reason for this is this vendor has not done a full Voip roll out over multiple locations and that was one reason for not choosing that solution.

Now while I was out he managed a meeting with the descion makers and is really pushing his product with a combo. Other then conformity and easy moves of the phones, what are some other reasons to present a full IP solution across the board.

Any help is needed and appreciated.

 

[jdblack]

I have been documenting any discussions regarding our existing phone system, as well as trouble for the last year. Sent another email to the decision makers last week outlining support issues exisiting, as well as gains in productivity and savings that could be realized with ANY voip solution. No response as of yet. Probably won't get one.

computerhighguy: Any chance you have any old Telrad equip. you want to get rid of? Interested in anything that would fit in a 400 or 128 cabinet. Ground or loop starts, eld, power supplies. Storm season is starting and it never fails that I at least lose a port or 2. gotta get my disaster recovery plan in place.........

 

[chris11111111]

I'm going to give you some bad news: "it is time to reboot the phone system." Yup, expect to reboot at least once a year or more often during the day when something hangs badly.

And, VOIP costs more.

And, now you'll need to be able to debug the network gear (switches etc) between the phone and the VOIP box. Yuck.

And, you'll have to pay more for folks who really understand how networks work .......

 

[computerhighguy]

I would disagree with you Chris.

I can reboot part of the phone system (I have several servers like you are supposed to) with ZERO interruption to my call processing. I can upgrade the phone system without interruption if I want during the middle of the day.

VoIP costs more:
In its most basic form, VoIP is much cheaper than a traditional PBX. The saving in structured cabling alone could justify much of it. My company already had most of the infrastructure (as will most companies who take IT seriously) to support VoIP. So it cost us very little. In fact, you can run VoIP at just about any SMB company for very cheap. Typically the structure is already there. At least the cabling will be and since Cisco is the leader in routers, you can probably find a CCME compatible router at most SMBs. This assumes that you are comparing apples to apples. If you buy the cheap 4 line 8 station PBX off of ebay for 200 dollars, then yes, VoIP will cost you more. If you are comparing a Toshiba phone system to a Cisco phone system, the Cisco hardware will almost always be cheaper.

Debugging network gear:
I can say without a doubt that I would rather debug a standards based protocol (TCP/IP) than attempt to debug a proprietary system like most traditional PBX's use. I at least have a chance at identifying a problem and fixing it. To me, a phone is just another computer on the network and has to live by the same rules. If you can debug basic Windows networking issues, you can debug most VoIP issues. I also do not have to replace expensive proprietary cards that will eventually only be good for paper weights.

Pay more folks who understand networks:
I would say most SMB company's IT departments can absorb the phone system and administer it pretty easily. In fact, I save money since I know networks. I used to have to pay an expensive vendor to do higher level stuff (and they where not very good at that). Now I can do it myself. Most SMB companies already have some sort of IT staff and their knowledge of Windows and the way Windows networks work will allow them to do the basic troubleshooting of the phone system and even extend it on their own. You have so many more options with VoIP than with traditional.

I can understand in 911 operations, large corporations, and a few other places you would need to use a traditional PBX, but I have seen very few places where VoIP is not a good fit.



It is what it is!!
__________________________________
A+, Net+, I-Net+, Certified Web Master, MCP, MCSA, MCSE, CCNA, CCDA, and few others (I got bored one day)

 

[Duaneness]

Time for my two cents. . .

When was the last time you picked up a phone hanging off of a "traditional" PBX and did not have dial tone?

When was the last time you had "network" problems, such as a server crash (especially a windows server)?

I caution that the "cutting edge" is often the "bleeding edge."

I have been supporting Avaya PBX's for years; when Avaya was pushing their latest release (it was 10.5 at the time) I was installing version 6 PBX's in my call centers. Why? The new technology had not proven itself to be as reliable as the older version. The older version was stable and had all of the features I needed. Those switches have been running without incident for many years. Aside from an occasional power outage, there hasn't been a single problem.

VoIP may be the future, but we're not ready for a pure VoIP solution yet. And we haven't even touched on sound quality yet.....

 

[computerhighguy]

Answers.

1) When it wasn't plugged in or the power was out.
2) I will limit is to a server running Callmanager using the approved Cisco image and not a general purpose server. NEVER


Call Centers are a different fish to fry than a standard SMB phone system. I agree that call centers need to be dealt with a bit differently.


Let me ask you a question or two.

1) When was the last time you stretch a phone from NJ to Germany using a "traditional" PBX and got dial tone?
2) When was the last time you brought up a new building for a company and didn't have to buy an additional phone system for the building using a "traditional" PBX?
3) When was the last time you installed a traditional PBX and didn't have to run at least 2 lines to each desktop (1 network and 1 phone)?

I don't like the justification you use. Why run Windows XP when DOS is a proven operating system? Why run an IBM Compatible PC when Mainframes are the truely proven platforms? You cannot consider VoIP bleeding edge anymore when 20% of Japan runs it to their home. Vonage just went over 500,000 subscribers. AT&T, Verizon, Comcast, and Time Warner are all deploying VoIP as the cornerstone of thier future business. 3 years ago, my Cisco phone system was bleeding edge. Not anymore.

I've been running VoIP in my company in one form or another for over 6 years. I have yet to have a voice quality issue that wasn't acceptable (always much better than a cell phone which probably does more business than any PBX). Just like a traditional PBX, you must engineer the entire system properly to make it work.


It is what it is!!
__________________________________
A+, Net+, I-Net+, Certified Web Master, MCP, MCSA, MCSE, CCNA, CCDA, and few others (I got bored one day)

 

[Sweetworks]

I've been reviewing VOIP for over a year now.

I have 3 locations - A site with 60 Phones in Ontario, 2 sites in NY State (2 miles apart) with 60 Phones in Plant A, and 12 Phones in Plant B.

Plant B is still in the process of getting up and running. I have an Integrated T-1 set t be installed in a month.

I looked over a Traditional PBX and found it to be about 5K,
I then looked at Shoreline and that was about 9K. I had the CEO's approval as we needed a phone system there anyway, lets gamble abit and see if we like the VOIP system and if so push it to the other 2 plants.

I liked the Shoreline system as it is easy to configure.
But the Port chrarge is high.
A 120/24 costs around 5K alone. YOu get a 5 to 1 ratio of IP phones to Analog Phones. So If I wanted to have 120 Analog phones it would cost me 25K for 5 120/24's, + 200 per extension for 24K + 100 per phone for 12K totaling 61K.
To go pure IP it would be 5K for 1 120/24 + 200 per extension for 24K + 250 per phone for 30K totaling 59K. I caould use my existing cat5 wiring, but I may need to buy a new switch, plus I would be putting exessive bandwidth on my network, so for 2K more I do not have to put any more traffic on my network, unless it is interoffice communications.

I am also looking at a Teladvantage system, to configure it with 120 Analog Ports it about 9K more than the base cost I haven't figured out all the licensing yet, but it will probalbly be as much as the Shoreline at 25K.

The teladvantage system has all the scripts on the main computer so your basic analog phone will have IP like capabilites and have the ability to log off and log in like IP phones. But it has some additional features that the Shoreline doesn't have.
If you wanted to forward your calls to you cell, with the Shoreline it will just forward your call (at least that is what I gathered as they didn't expand on it further). With the Teladvantage the system will call your cell phone, and you will receive a prompt - Push one to answer the call, push 2 to place in voicemail, push 3 to forward to another party. The end user hasn't connected with you yet until you choose an option and it is fully programable to put what ever option you want. Further more, say you are on the Cell, and arrive at the Office, you can tranfer the call to your deskphone and continue teh conversation there, and vise versa transfer a call from your desk to the Cell Phone.
They also had more advance feautres like using 802.11 phones.

Anyway, I think it would be better to use VOIP, but in a hybrind mode. If you have your phones sill be analog, you do not use any extra bandwidth but will still have all the perks of a VOIP.

 

[jdblack]

Pretty much the same as what I am seeing numbers wise. My difference is that I have 11 sites that will be needing new phone systems within the next few years and 4 main sites that need new now. My concerns are that if I go with a hybrid, I will be facing issues later in regards to features available as the VOIP technology evolves. I don't believe that the hybrids will be able to keep up 6 to 10 years down the road. Shoreline will give you options on how to handle a call that is forwarded to your cell phone, similar to what you are talking about with Teleadvantage.
Any particular reason you would need that many analog ports?

 

[mextera]

Okay,

Here we go the classic VOIP vs Traditional solutions.

Not to add fuel to this fire but here you go in regards to not needing QOS look at this article.

http://www.computerworld.com/networkingtopics/networking/story/0,10801,98916,00.html

In answer to other questions

1) When was the last time you stretch a phone from NJ to Germany using a "traditional" PBX and got dial tone?
All the Time NEC has a solution for that its called Dterm Externder been around since about 1996. NEC also has a VOIP solution for this.
2) When was the last time you brought up a new building for a company and didn't have to buy an additional phone system for the building using a "traditional" PBX?
All the Time NEC has a solution called the DRU or Remote PIM. NEC also has a solution for that called IP remote PIM.
3) When was the last time you installed a traditional PBX and didn't have to run at least 2 lines to each desktop (1 network and 1 phone)?
Now this is just silly if you have different platforms then you need different cabeling. But your voice cable standards are min compared to data cable cat 6.

I like the direction our buisness is going but I'm tired of every time you turn around you have some network guy that slaps a call mangager in and is now a VOIP expert.

I do not have a problem with an all VOIP solution as long as the user is willing to put up with losing features. I find that for the most part they are not.
I read an article that Philips In Europe was looking for and VOIP solution and brought in Cisco, Avaya and NEC Gues who they are selling. NEC provides VOIP with TDM reliablity. Yes you do need QOS or else the "Round Trip is less than 150ms".
I too got bored and along with vast amount of PBX NEC, Avaya and Nortel Certifications I got CWNA and CCNA.

The lines are blured and it is up to all of us to get better at what we are weak in. It is time to embrace VOIP and Traditional PBX xolutions for they can co exist!

I'll step down now,
Mextera