I have a situation where a vendor is wanting to install a wiring solution using cable, patch panels, inserts, the whole nine yards using a complete CAT6 solution for both voice and data. I of course understand the data aspect of this; however, the voice aspcet of this is something new to me. I am just used to seeing voice punched down into 66 blocks and line chords into the phone system (a Nortel system if that makes a difference). I see the benefit of moving extenions easily, but is there a caveat I'm not aware of in everything bundled together and punching down into data patch panels?
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Voice/Data Wiring Project over CAT6 1
- Thread starter cajuntank
- Start date
We have several clients who have asked for this. The one suggest I would have for you would be to install the voice and data jacks in seperate patch panels. While they function the same, it makes it much easier to manage later. If they go to a VoIP phone system later they'll need the wiring.
SparksLondon
Technical User
I first saw this in an office installation, where they were continally moving arround personell and equipment. Several times I noticed areas used fo voice and data changed to just fax and phone or to a desk with several printers only requiring data. This would have been difficult if every position waslaid out for a desk with 1 phone socket and 1 rj45 socket.
If every cable is terminated on both ends by RJ45 then with the appropriate adaptors it can be used for anything. Apart from the obvious they could be used for various signalling installations such as sound, alarm devices, entryphone/intercom,CCTV and anything else I have forgotten or has not yet been developed.
As an electrical contractor I now use cat5 in houses for phone and data, allowing any socket to be used in a PC network, for a broadband connection or phone.
I hope this helps.
If every cable is terminated on both ends by RJ45 then with the appropriate adaptors it can be used for anything. Apart from the obvious they could be used for various signalling installations such as sound, alarm devices, entryphone/intercom,CCTV and anything else I have forgotten or has not yet been developed.
As an electrical contractor I now use cat5 in houses for phone and data, allowing any socket to be used in a PC network, for a broadband connection or phone.
I hope this helps.
Servamatic
IS-IT--Management
Total cost of ownership.
By having all cables and jacks the same, as Sparks stated they can be used for any type of signal by simply moving a patch cord, this is what the standards are all about, reducing the TCO.
Richard S. Anderson, RCDD
By having all cables and jacks the same, as Sparks stated they can be used for any type of signal by simply moving a patch cord, this is what the standards are all about, reducing the TCO.
Richard S. Anderson, RCDD
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1
- #5
daronwilson
Vendor
If money is no object, it is a very good solution. Often companies look at the cost of doing it right and the cost of 'getting by' and choose the cheaper option. Doing it right the first time can certainly reward you in the end.
Of course, the flip side of the coin, is that you can spend more money than you can benefit from. Obviously a Cat6 cable, jack and patchpanel for an analog phone system is overkill right now. Now if you change to a VoIP system or something in the next year that could be very handy in the already wired Cat6 environment.
I've pulled out perfectly good Cat5 that _I_ installed 5+ years ago that was used for analog voice, and now the customer wants Cat6 in for analog voice because it is 'the best'. Was that good use of their budget? Probably not.
I think we should be wiring and planning for a reasonable time in the future. Cat6 is cool, will we care about it in 10 years? Probably not, we'll be using Cat34a or something. So, raceways, raceways, raceways. We can always upgrade the wiring as needed if we have a good layout and raceways.
Good Luck!
It is only my opinion, based on my experience and education...I am always willing to learn, educate me!
Daron J. Wilson, RCDD
daron.wilson@lhmorris.com
Of course, the flip side of the coin, is that you can spend more money than you can benefit from. Obviously a Cat6 cable, jack and patchpanel for an analog phone system is overkill right now. Now if you change to a VoIP system or something in the next year that could be very handy in the already wired Cat6 environment.
I've pulled out perfectly good Cat5 that _I_ installed 5+ years ago that was used for analog voice, and now the customer wants Cat6 in for analog voice because it is 'the best'. Was that good use of their budget? Probably not.
I think we should be wiring and planning for a reasonable time in the future. Cat6 is cool, will we care about it in 10 years? Probably not, we'll be using Cat34a or something. So, raceways, raceways, raceways. We can always upgrade the wiring as needed if we have a good layout and raceways.
Good Luck!
It is only my opinion, based on my experience and education...I am always willing to learn, educate me!
Daron J. Wilson, RCDD
daron.wilson@lhmorris.com
Good point Daron! Pathways are the key. There are several projects that I need to be working on that I can't do or are/where unneccesary hard because the pathway was inadiquate or didn't exist.
Justin T. Clausen
Physical Layer Implementation
California State University, Monterey Bay
Justin T. Clausen
Physical Layer Implementation
California State University, Monterey Bay
conleycomm
Technical User
It comes down to budget. The CAT 6 standard is just recently radified, and CAT 7 is right on it's tail... will they want to rip everything out and upgrade in a year?
You might want to take a consultive approach on this one. I have had several customers ask for CAT 6 networks without even knowing any benefits. In most cases, since Gigabit networking to the desktop is not in their plan, running CAT 6 wiring to the desktop doesn't make alot of sense. I usually suggest that we upgrade the 'backbone' of their network to gigabit and CAT6 wiring standards. Running Gigabit between the service entry, the managed Layer 3 switches and the Servers is a great strategy. CAT 5 and 100 Mbps for switch to desktop.
Good Luck...
You might want to take a consultive approach on this one. I have had several customers ask for CAT 6 networks without even knowing any benefits. In most cases, since Gigabit networking to the desktop is not in their plan, running CAT 6 wiring to the desktop doesn't make alot of sense. I usually suggest that we upgrade the 'backbone' of their network to gigabit and CAT6 wiring standards. Running Gigabit between the service entry, the managed Layer 3 switches and the Servers is a great strategy. CAT 5 and 100 Mbps for switch to desktop.
Good Luck...
WaitronUnit
IS-IT--Management
- Dec 2, 2003
- 38
Ditto... there will always be something around the corner - some next-great-thing. From an ethics standpoint, educate your clients on the pros and cons so they don't feel taken advantage of down-the-road; eventually they'll become educated of the benefits vs. drawbacks since "extending the guts won't always speed up the ingestion".
If the client is asking for it, then it seams thought they think they have the budget (though they probably wouldn't be saving all that much putting in separate Categories). If that's the case, give 'em a quote for what they want. If they don't hit the floor great.
As for what do to with the voice. Connecting to your phone system is really no different. You might have to custom make your line cords as they will probably be longer than you are used to. One suggestion, as line cords don't dress in patch panel wire management very well, you might want to try and set it up so that patches going to the phone switch route to the left and patches going to the data switch route to the right (number and density of your patch panels will decide if you can do this, as well as the locations of the switches). It just makes for a quick visual on what port is a voice and which is a data.
If you wanted to get really creative, you could set up a 66 block near the phone switch, and have your line cords as you are use too. Then run a high pair count cable (25 or 50 pair) from the 66 block over to the patch panel in the rack, and make a 'permanent' patch between the panel and the 66 block by putting mod ends on the neccesary pairs on the 25/50 pair cable.
Now this isn't to any standards of any kind, but it makes it so the phone guys just see what they are used to seeing. It might also clean up the patching as well. Anyway, there's just a creative way to get things set up so that they look a little more familiar.
Justin T. Clausen
Physical Layer Implementation
California State University, Monterey Bay
As for what do to with the voice. Connecting to your phone system is really no different. You might have to custom make your line cords as they will probably be longer than you are used to. One suggestion, as line cords don't dress in patch panel wire management very well, you might want to try and set it up so that patches going to the phone switch route to the left and patches going to the data switch route to the right (number and density of your patch panels will decide if you can do this, as well as the locations of the switches). It just makes for a quick visual on what port is a voice and which is a data.
If you wanted to get really creative, you could set up a 66 block near the phone switch, and have your line cords as you are use too. Then run a high pair count cable (25 or 50 pair) from the 66 block over to the patch panel in the rack, and make a 'permanent' patch between the panel and the 66 block by putting mod ends on the neccesary pairs on the 25/50 pair cable.
Now this isn't to any standards of any kind, but it makes it so the phone guys just see what they are used to seeing. It might also clean up the patching as well. Anyway, there's just a creative way to get things set up so that they look a little more familiar.
Justin T. Clausen
Physical Layer Implementation
California State University, Monterey Bay
Hitechbuzz
Technical User
Just my Penny's worth We have Cat 5/5e in place to outlets but on all patch pannels we have at least one strip with 24 jacks for voice outlets on even the smallest & up to 15 x24 strips on the larger Rack some are wired 2W some 4W these are then wired back to the telephone switch. any outlet any where can be used for either data or phone it is most flexible.
Cheers Brian
Cheers Brian
Hi All,
Its my opinion that when installing a cabling installation,it is always better to buy into the future, The average cabling installation has got a lifespan of 10years which as we all know is light years in computing, I don't know what it is like over there ,but the price differential between Cat6 and Cat5 is not too much as compared with the cost of recabling two years down the line. Recabling even with the perfect raceways can be a real challenge.
Its my opinion that when installing a cabling installation,it is always better to buy into the future, The average cabling installation has got a lifespan of 10years which as we all know is light years in computing, I don't know what it is like over there ,but the price differential between Cat6 and Cat5 is not too much as compared with the cost of recabling two years down the line. Recabling even with the perfect raceways can be a real challenge.
Your scenario depends on a few other things as well. How much effort and expense will it be to intergrate your PBX into a patch panel solution? It does not make sense to install Cat 6 and terminate to a 66 block. If your tennet will be in their building less than 2-3 more years, then some money can be saved using Cat5e. If they are in thier location for the long run, then Cat6 is the way to go. If the customer can afford to put 3 or 4 drops at each desk location, they will have pretty good flexibilty for the future.
Servamatic
IS-IT--Management
Actually from conversations with many in the industry, mostly manufacturers the average life span of installed UTP is 4.9 years. Not because it goes bad, but due to upgrades.
Richard S. Anderson, RCDD
Richard S. Anderson, RCDD
Richard,
last spec we heard was 7 years of lifespan, but each manufactor can make their own of course. either way, since Cat5E has been on the market since 2000, and Cat6 is just coming in, Cat6 would give them the edge for now, and it is open to more applications.
last spec we heard was 7 years of lifespan, but each manufactor can make their own of course. either way, since Cat5E has been on the market since 2000, and Cat6 is just coming in, Cat6 would give them the edge for now, and it is open to more applications.
Servamatic
IS-IT--Management
My only point was that cable installations usually end up being replaced well before the 7 or 10 year lifespan, sure they will work longer, they just end up being upgraded before the expected lifespan is over.
Cat 5e was in the market well before 2000, more like 97 and it was quite common in 98. The standard wasn't ratified till 2000.
Richard S. Anderson, RCDD
Cat 5e was in the market well before 2000, more like 97 and it was quite common in 98. The standard wasn't ratified till 2000.
Richard S. Anderson, RCDD
I think today's economic trend will be to extend the life of existing networks more than in the past. The justification to upgrade all the cable plant and internal equipment won't be there because of a low ROI. I think we agree that Cat6 provides the best long term solution at this point, and I think it will remain a standard for a while. I don't see alot of businesses with an existing Cat5e network changing anytime soon. There just isn't a big enough advantage vs. cost.
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