VM Pro and Windows XP limitations 6

[Yaze]

That's what i was assuming at first until i was told otherwise by avaya. My next step is to setup a XP Home machine with more than 5 VM ports and attempt to connect 6 or more users to the voicemail.

Thanks intrigant.



Yaze.
Chaos, Panic and Disorder, my work here is done.

 

[phantomiii]

I appreciate the detail in your posts Yaze and Intrigant, and I'd love to see a final outcome.

My question is, hmmm... let's say, a windows server 2003 standard edition that comes with a 5 CAL pack. How many connections can it use, and how does that apply to the IP Office world. Would a 12 port VMPro overtax the connections if all 12 ports were in use? Would I really need to tell a customer you need as many CAL's as you need ports on the Voicemail?

I've never seen any mention of the the specifics from Avaya on this.

Thanks

 

[JayNEC]

CAL connections do not apply to IP Office.
Just like other applications - If I run an FTP server on my machine, 100 people can connect to it. It does not use that level of connection.

Think about it, IIS (Web Server) runs on windows and 1000 people can hit that website. I don't need 1000 cals. CALs are for authenticated windows user connections.

 

[kristiandg]

Spoke w/ tier 4 today. "Connections" in the windows world refers to its file-sharing services (authenticated users). TFTP is a limitation of the Manager Application (I think 3 users), and can be easily (and freely) increased by using Avaya's re-branded TFTP server for IP telephony (30 users I believe). At that point, that software has taken over the TFTP port and is its own piece of software with its own limitations.

Indeed the connection between VMPro and the IPO is a single tftp connection (with signalling). That being the case, the OS is not the limiting factor. However, keep in mind that the IPO's size (403, 406, etc) dictates your VMPro limit (regardless of licenses) due to available Data Channels (for signalling).

Tier 1 historically has issues not fully comprihending questions asked of them (not looking at the big picture), and tend to merely function from a pre-definded troubleshooting list prior to escellation. We work directly with T4 for that very reason and haven't had to call T1 for years.

In any case, the issues you've experienced in the past are not caused by "connection limits", as those limits have no bearing on the services for which the system is being used. There are functional differences between XP and 2k3 that are more likely the culprit (so much so that some problems only appear on one OS but not the other).

Hope this clears things up a bit.

Kris

 

[phantomiii]

Thanks for the post!

So, then is it still true that a VmPro box built on Windows XP Pro can't have more than 10 ports, because of the limitation of the OS? Is that verified by T4?

btw, the Avaya rebranded TFTP server keep crapping out on me on my 100+ IP phones all requesting the 46xxx.txt and .scr files on a reboot of the 412. I switched to the Solar Winds free version and it's works great and has never crashed when heavily loaded like the Avaya rebranded one did. Just a FYI for anyone looking for an alternative.

 

[latitude12]

I've followed this thread with interest, as I have asked a similar question of Avaya lately. There are a couple of things that need to be clarified here:

VM Pro is not supported on XP Home, so discussion on that topic is irrelevant.

Don't get confused between the limit of connections on non-server OSs (which are concurrent), and licensed connections to a server OS (which are not concurrent, i.e. if you have 5 client you need 5 CALs, regardless of how many are connected to the server at any one time).

Windows CALs have changed between Windows 2000 and 2003. In Windows 2000, CALs were required when accessing certain services on the server (e.g. file sharing). In 2003, this has changed. In Microsoft's words:

“With Windows Server 2003, CALs are no longer triggered based on the use of certain services but are instead based on access to and/or use of the server software…...Note the following general exception to Windows CAL requirements: Windows CALs are not required when access to the server software is unauthenticated and conducted through the Internet.”

http://www.microsoft.com/windowsserver2003/howtobuy/licensing/caloverview.mspx

I can't find anything more specific than that, but that paragraph says to me that all IPO applications require CALs if run on a server OS (as they are unauthenticated but connecting over the LAN rather then the internet). This includes VM Pro, as the IPO is the device connecting to the server (so this will require 1 CAL, regardless of the number of VM ports). This is my interpretation of the available info, although I am by no means a Microsoft expert.

I have posed this question to Avaya, the response (from the IPO product management team) is that because Windows CALs are only a legal requirement (the software will still work without the licenses, but will be illegal) Avaya will not document or advise as to whether CALs are required.

 

[JayNEC]

No, No, No, NO.
You don't need CAL's for VM Pro, TFTP, HTTP, SMTP et al.

"Windows CALs are not required when access to the server software is unauthenticated" (internet or not is irrelevant)
VM Pro does not use an authenticated connection - except for SMTP of course, but in that case it's in the same server. No CAL's. TFTP is not authenticated, no CAL's.
In fact, if you look at the Licensing tool, if you needed
CAL's then you would see that reflected. You don't.
XP Pro has no CAL's, but you can have more than 10 TFTP sessions for example. If you run IIS on XP, you can have more than 10 sessions to that web server. Non Autenticated connections. This mainly applies to File Share level access. Not to TFTP, VM Pro Ports or anything of the sort.
Gaaaaaah.

 

[JayNEC]

Basically, if you are connecting to the server using an NT/AD user account - it takes a CAL.
TFTP et al, use a TCP port - that's all.

 

[kristiandg]

Wait. Everyone's forgetting that there is ONLY 1 connection for VM Pro, and that is the PBX to the PC. Regardless of port size, its still one connection.

Kris

 

[phantomiii]

Well that's all fine and dandy... so can anyone answer my question then? Can a Win XP Pro OS support Voicemail Pro of more than 10 ports?

Nobody said anything about XP Home, it's not supported, end of story.

Does Avaya have a stance on how many ports are supported when using Win XP Pro as the OS?

Has anyone verfied by using and implementing a voicemail pro system of more than 10 ports while using Win XP Pro for an OS?

Thanks!

 

[MrIPO]

You guys are reading way to much into all of this it is very stright forward CAL are Microsoft Client Cccess Licenses as per intrigrant post, It has nothing to do with VM Pro at all.

You could have any of the following operating systems
Windows 2000 with Service Pack 4
Windows XP Professional with Service Pack 2.
Windows 2003SP1

And run a full 30 Ports of VM Pro, however you would want to look at the RAM and CPU / HDD specs as per the installation guide to make sure you do not run into Voice Quality issues.

http://www.iporesource.com

"Launching late 2006

 

[latitude12]

JayNEC - Like I said in my post, I'm not a Microsoft expert. However, that quote is direct from the page I linked to, so if you say that's wrong do you have an alternative source?

You use XP as an example, but XP doesn't have CALs because it isn't a server OS.

You talk about a licensing tool, is this something from Avaya?

 

[JayNEC]

With Windows Server 2003, CALs are no longer triggered based on the use of certain services but are instead based on access to and/or use of the server software."

We are not using the server software. We are using VMPro.

 

[phantomiii]

Thanks Mr. IPO, I've always felt I needed a server OS for a system with more than 10 Voicemail ports, but if Win XP Pro will work, that's great! (I always get a PC with enough ram, HDD, and proc speed.) Thanks!

 

[kristiandg]

Yes, it can handle more than ten ports IF the PBX can support it (based on its capability for data channels). I have it working a several customer sites.

Kris G.

 

[helsby]

ok - we're in the long drawn out, not working 10 hours after starting, tech,tier3 and tier4 combined process of upgrading from xppro to w2k3 server for our ims/vmpro server. For 3 reasons -
1. Avaya does not officially support vmpro/ims on XP Professional - the readme files NOW say this - originally they used to say xppro was supportable.
2. XP has the 10 user limit.
3. when a desktop outlook client checks mail, it makes a connection to the ims server on port 135 (which would need a cal).


Not sure if this is confusing vmpro and ims but may be of help to others.

 

[intrigrant]

VM Pro with no options : 2000WKS, 2000SRVR, XP, 2003
VM Pro with TTS : 2000WKS, 2000SRVR, XP
VM Pro with IMS : 2000SRVR, 2003
VM Pro with TTS & DB Access : 2000SRVR, 2003

That covers it all i guess.