Vista or XP?

[zeusfaber]

Looks like I'm going to get to buy a new laptop to add to our existing home network (two elderly 98SE boxes, plus one running XP Home SP2). New machine likely to be used for browsing, occasional office work (including the odd bit of engineering spreadsheeting) and lightweight gaming (at the sort of Sims 2 level, or just a little busier). I'll almost certainly put Office Pro 2003 on it.

Although the laptops I'm looking at come loaded by default with Vista Home Premium, it looks like there are one or two where by paying a bit extra I can get XP Pro instead.

I know a few months ago (when I wasn't looking at buying new hardware) people advised me to avoid Vista at all costs. Has the general view softened at all since then?

If I buy Vista, will I see any problems running my mixed network? If I buy XP Pro, will I be pursuing a dead end? Is having to learn a third OS likely to confuse the wife and kids?

What do people think?

A.

 

[ceh4702]

My vote would be for XP.

I have seen complaints from people with slow running Vista Laptops. Some laptops do not support XP so dont think you can downgrade to XP unless it is specifically supported in the sales agreement.

Dont get low-end hardware and expect to run Vista.


If you do not like my post feel free to point out your opinion or my errors.

 

[artyk]

I don't have anything against Vista per se, nor have I used it extensively. I know some people that run Vista on their personal laptops, though, and there have been some issues. With some of Microsoft's products it seems to take several years for them to actually be where they should be in the development process. XP has really just come into it's own in the last couple of years and it's been out since 2001. Vista has some good potential, but I would be skeptical that they got it right on the first try, especially with a new SP getting ready to be released. Those always seem to bring up new issues.

 

[wahnula]

XP has really just come into it's own in the last couple of years

Yes, I remember the fray about SP2 "breaking" things and people being afraid to implement it (some still are). Point is most people are afraid of change, old is familiar. I still prefer XP but bought Vista Ultimate when it first came out. I was terribly disappointed and still frustrated by it, but it is the future, so we will need to get used to it eventually.

I am so disappointed that the new file system did not make it into Vista, NTFS was a major reason to get Win2K/XP over 98SE back in the day.

Tony

"Buy what you like, or you'll be forced to like what you buy"...me

 

[gbaughma]

The issue that I have with Vista is all of the DRM crap.

For example...

I have a Media Center PC that I built (pictures on my web site at my site.

Well, my media center has a S/PDIF output to my receiver. All audio goes through that.

But not if I was running Vista.

See, because of the DRM built into Vista, and there's no way to *guarantee* that I won't use the S/PDIF output to make illegal copies of stuff, Vista just shuts it off.

Oh, and one of two things may happen if I decided to drop a Blu-Ray or HD-DVD drive in that machine and run Vista.

Either it would shut off my S/PDIF, and DOWNGRADE the video quality to VCR quality, or just plain refuse to play it.

Now, granted, if you're going to run Office and Internet Explorer, Vista is fine and dandy. But, if you're going to do anything with media (especially high-definition media), you can pretty much hang it up.

There was a case of a guy who went to best buy, bought a *brand new* Vista Media Center Edition PC, got a free Blu-Ray movie with his computer purchase, took it home, plugged it in, and OUT OF THE BOX, Vista refused to play the movie. And that was a package deal!

Nope. When Microsoft discontinues their support for XP, I will be converting my Media Center PC to a Linux media center.



Just my 2¢
-Cole's Law: Shredded cabbage

--Greg

http://parallel.tzo.com

 

[LawnBoy]

Tony,
I don't mean to pick on you but can you reconcile this statement:

I was terribly disappointed and still frustrated by it, but it is the future, so we will need to get used to it eventually

with your signature?

"Buy what you like, or you'll be forced to like what you buy"...me

I mean, the first quote seems to be a defeatist's attitude... Please don't take offence, I hear a lot of people saying "well, we gotta do what Microsoft wants us to" but I don't understand why they feel this way.

 

[wahnula]

Lawn Boy,

When I bought it, I liked it. I played with RC1 and had a ball. Then the RFP came out and lo and behold things did not work as they did previously! It sits mostly unused on its separate drive until I absolutely HAVE to use it.

So, to reconcile with my 'mission statement', I did buy what I liked, only to find it changed and unusable. It is the perfect analogy, as eventually we will have no choice but be forced to 'like' Vista for a Windows OS, as DirectX 10 and other goodies will only be available via Vista.

I have an office full of PCs (11) running Win2K and I will be buying XP licenses before MS support runs out for Win2K in 2010. We can't afford to replace perfectly good PCs just because their integrated video won't handle Vista. Honestly, I would keep Win2K as an office OS forever if I could, but XP does have one big advantage, native wireless support.

A defeatist attitude, maybe, but I'm also a realist. Until Ubuntu (or other Linux distros) gives me the flexibility I need, or Apple decides to let me build my own PC and try out OSX, it is inevitable that Vista will be patched up enough to be the dominant OS in 5 years...just about the time MS debuts its next-gen OS!

Tony

"Buy what you like, or you'll be forced to like what you buy"...me

 

[LawnBoy]

Fair enough.

 

[kmcferrin]

Well, my media center has a S/PDIF output to my receiver. All audio goes through that.

But not if I was running Vista.

See, because of the DRM built into Vista, and there's no way to *guarantee* that I won't use the S/PDIF output to make illegal copies of stuff, Vista just shuts it off.

Oh, and one of two things may happen if I decided to drop a Blu-Ray or HD-DVD drive in that machine and run Vista.

Either it would shut off my S/PDIF, and DOWNGRADE the video quality to VCR quality, or just plain refuse to play it.

Now, granted, if you're going to run Office and Internet Explorer, Vista is fine and dandy. But, if you're going to do anything with media (especially high-definition media), you can pretty much hang it up.

I'm not sure that is the case. IIRC, Vista only degrades copy protected content, and only if it's being piped through a device that doesn't support that copy protection. For example, if you have a media center PC running Vista and you connect the HDCP out on your PC to the HDCP in on your HDTV, it shouldn't be degraded at all.

Now I don't have an HDCP-compliant anything, so I don't know for sure. But then I don't have a media PC anyway. I have yet to have any DRM-related issues with Vista on my desktop or laptop.

 

[gmattey]

vista seems quicker than xp and looks 100 times better, xp looks boring but not that that matters.

if you had vista say 5 months ago then a deffo no no, i made the mistake of getting it more or less as soon as it came out and there where no drivers, i couldn't get on the internet or use my printer. but that was 5 months ago, now in 2008 vista is just like xp but better, nearly all drivers and software is available for vista now and vista is the way forward, xp will be as elderly as windows 98 before we know it....my vote goes for vista it rules

Asus P5K Motherboard
Intel Core 2 Duo E6850 3.0GHz
4GB DDR2 667 MHz
320GB Sata Hard Drive
ATI EAX1550 Gamer Edition 1GB

 

[IRudebwoy]

When Microsoft discontinues their support for XP, I will be converting my Media Center PC to a Linux media center.

Amen brother. I have my GNU/Linux media workstation working almost the way I like it.

[rant]I'm tired of someone else telling me what I need. All I need is my linux box. I can make my GUI as simple or complex as I want, or none at all. Point is it's my choice, no one else's. I've spent enough $$ on hardware why would I spend more for an OS and 3rd party software when GNU/Linux has everything I need and more. I'm willing to tinker and learn[/rant]

That's why I'm in this field. To tinker and learn.

 

[gbaughma]

I'm not sure that is the case. IIRC, Vista only degrades copy protected content, and only if it's being piped through a device that doesn't support that copy protection.

Exactly.

And S/PDIF (digital audio out) doesn't. If you play high-def copywritten (read: movie) and try to pump it through S/PDIF to a 5.1 decoder (like I have now), it will shut off the sound. S/PDIF doesn't support DRM, therefore Vista shuts it off.

And how much extra processor time is it using to DOWNGRADE my high-def movie, just because Hollywood/Microsoft says "Oh, sorry, *that* particular piece of equipment doesn't have our DRM, so we're going to reduce your viewing experience"?

Unacceptable, in my book. I will not have Big Brother downgrading my viewing experience, just because it's not "approved" hardware, *ESPECIALLY* when that hardware worked *BEFORE* the upgrade to Vista.

What's next? We'll go to the theater, and after seeing a movie, they just wipe our memory? Because, of course, our brains have "recorded" their precious content, and that's not an approved, copy-protected medium.....



Just my 2¢
-Cole's Law: Shredded cabbage

--Greg

http://parallel.tzo.com

 

[O2BNSV]

I purchased a laptop with Vista Ultimate at the end of November. I love it. It is much more intuitive for the end user than XP. As long as you have the hardware to drive it the way it needs, it is great. I have not had one issue with it.

 

[LawnBoy]

I have not had one issue with it.

Except for the VPN issue in thread602-1438898...

 

[PRPhx]

LawnBoy;
I have a Vista Home premium based laptop and connect to our Corp. VPN using CISCO's vpn client. Never have a problem connecting or while connected. It just works!

 

[LawnBoy]

I'm not saying Vista can't use VPN. I was just pointing out that O2BNSV is having an issue, that's all.

Ain't nuthin' perfect...

 

[kmcferrin]

But is it a Vista issue or a VPN issue?

 

[JimInKS]

Found a Microsoft document on downgrading OEM versions of Vista to XP. Basically you can. You do have to supply your own media and call Microsoft for activation.

http://download.microsoft.com/downl...cbd-699b0c164182/royaltyoemreferencesheet.pdf

 

[kmcferrin]

With Vista Ultimate or Business editions, it does appear that you can downgrade from an OEM version. That's good to know. So if you're considering getting a Vista-based machine and you think that you may need downgrade rights, make sure that the PC you're considering doesn't run Vista Basic or Premium (most retail Vista systems do).

 

[wahnula]

With Vista Ultimate or Business editions, it does appear that you can downgrade from an OEM version

Agreed this is great to know, BUT...it's all academic without XP drivers available for the hardware. I have a feeling it's only going to get worse as newer machines come out with newer hardware and the developers don't bother to write XP drivers.

The point is to be sure before you "downgrade" and don't buy a new product with plans for downgrading it if you can't find XP drivers on the builder's website first.

Tony

"...an eye for an eye leaves everybody blind" - M.L. King

 

[kmcferrin]

Agreed this is great to know, BUT...it's all academic without XP drivers available for the hardware.

As long as you don't mention the Gateway MT6821 (which I'm typing on right now, in Vista).