vista booting to black screen

[dustervoice]

i have a problem with a client vista machine that only boots to a black screen with a cursor. and i cant get pass that. I tried safe mode, last know good config. and the same thing keeps happening its just stucked on a black screen with the cursor i tried some recomendation from the vistaforum but none of them work since i cant get the taskmanager to come up. any ideas?

 

[linney]

Vista's Startup Repair.

http://windowshelp.microsoft.com/Windows/en-US/Help/5c59f8c1-b0d1-4f1a-af55-74f3922f3f351033.mspx#EX

Startup Repair: frequently asked questions

http://windowshelp.microsoft.com/Wi...f8c1-b0d1-4f1a-af55-74f3922f3f351033.mspx#EHF

How to use the Command Prompt in the Vista Windows Recovery Environment

http://www.bleepingcomputer.com/tutorials/tutorial147.html

Using System Restore from the Vista Windows Recovery Environment

http://www.bleepingcomputer.com/tutorials/tutorial142.html

Have you tried the FixMbr equivalent command?

How to use the Bootrec.exe tool in the Windows Recovery Environment to troubleshoot and repair startup issues in Windows Vista

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/927392#appliesto

 

[eVAPor8]

@dustervoice:

I'm having the same problem myself. In the past it was a dodgy USB device inserted or removed at shutdown and here is how you cure it...

Remove *ALL* USB devices.
Boot to Safe Mode (if you can).
Get into Device Manager. (View Hidden Devices)
Scroll down and open the USB tree.
Delete ALL devices from the bottom up. (Top down will delete the "root" devices but just "hide" the sub-devices in the tree preventing you from Uninstalling them.

Reboot (and make a cup of coffee while the "real" USB drivers re-install).

Now here's the thing. I'm having the same problem again, but it's worse this time. I have an HP Lappy with twin HD's. After Dual-installing Ubuntu I now have 5 Partitions across two HD's with GRUB reporting 4 Windows and 2 Linux OS's.

I'm getting the dreaded Black Screen under the "normal" partition. Partition 2 give me a pretty HP Recovery OS... that accomplishes NOTHING! Partitions 3 & 4 are pretty much the same. But in German. With no hope of changing the language. I don't speak German.

I think it must be a driver issue, or else the machine is searching for hardware it *thinks* is connected and falling into an endless loop.

Oh, and ignore linney. I've read about five of his/her posts. All are duplicates of the same copy/paste job from a "how to for idiots" site. I'm trying to find a CLI way to inspect/uninstall hardware but I'm losing hope, TBH. Vista is fucked big time because M$ fucked up the security and reporting of Hard/symlinks, etc.

 

[linney]

Maybe this is what you need?

The DevCon command-line utility functions as an alternative to Device Manager

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/311272

What about removing the Linux Grub and seeing if your machine will boot into Windows without Linux interfering? You may have to repair the Vista or XP booting files.

315224 - How to Remove the Linux LILO Boot Manager

http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;315224&FR=1&PA=1&SD=HSCH

"The default security settings in Windows Vista disallow non-elevated administrators and all non-administrators from creating symbolic links. This behavior can be changed in the Local Security Policy management console (under: Security Settings\Local Policies\User Rights Assignment\Create symbolic links). It can be worked around by starting cmd.exe with Run as administrator option or the runas command.

Since Windows Vista Home does not have the Local Security Policy Management Console, the command line utility ntrights.exe from the Windows Server 2003 Resource Kit Tools can be used to grant rights to symbolic link creation".

NTFS symbolic link

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NTFS_symbolic_link

NTRIGHTS.exe (Resource Kit, 2000/2003)

http://www.ss64.com/nt/ntrights.html

Separate download link.

http://www.novell.com/coolsolutions/tools/downloads/ntrights.zip

What operating systems are partition 3 and 4, the ones that load in German, are they duplicate Recovery Partitions for German speaking people, or are they other Microsoft operating systems?

 

[eVAPor8]

OK, first off - apologies Linney. You're obviously not just spamming for counts. There's some good info in that last post.

I've found in the past that removing grub can often lead to further problems with the MBR, etc so I'll leave that as a last resort (and the fact that Ubuntu is the only "working" OS and I'll hose that as well doesn't help).

Devcon looks like it could be a winner if I can it on the "right" partition.

FYI, regarding the drive/partition/OS layout.

Winblows ("normal") mode reports
C: -> OS
D: -> Data

Except 'Blows (as usual) is lying because of the symlinks - half the OS files reportedly on C: are on actually D:

Grub.lst

default		4
timeout		10
# Pretty colours
color cyan/blue white/blue

## ## End Default Options ##

title		Ubuntu Heron
root		(hd0,4)
kernel		/boot/vmlinuz-2.6.24-19-generic root=UUID=fb25c2e4-3385-4e09-9b01-be2def795baa ro quiet splash
initrd		/boot/initrd.img-2.6.24-19-generic
quiet

title		Ubuntu 8.04.1, kernel 2.6.24-19-generic (recovery mode)
root		(hd0,4)
kernel		/boot/vmlinuz-2.6.24-19-generic root=UUID=fb25c2e4-3385-4e09-9b01-be2def795baa ro single
initrd		/boot/initrd.img-2.6.24-19-generic

title		Ubuntu 8.04.1, memtest86+
root		(hd0,4)
kernel		/boot/memtest86+.bin
quiet

### END DEBIAN AUTOMAGIC KERNELS LIST

title		Other operating systems:
root

# This entry automatically added by the Debian installer for a non-linux OS
# on /dev/sda1
title		Windows Vista/Longhorn (loader)   #<--"normal" Windows
root		(hd0,0)
savedefault
makeactive
chainloader	+1

# This entry automatically added by the Debian installer for a non-linux OS
# on /dev/sda2
title		Windows Vista/Longhorn (loader) # <-- "Normal" Recovery partition 
root		(hd0,1)
savedefault
makeactive
chainloader	+1

# This entry automatically added by the Debian installer for a non-linux OS
# on /dev/sdb1
title		Windows Vista/Longhorn (loader) # <-- hidden "German" partition. Looks like part of the manufacturer's OS/Software setup
root		(hd1,0)
savedefault
makeactive
map		(hd0) (hd1)
map		(hd1) (hd0)
chainloader	+1

# This entry automatically added by the Debian installer for a non-linux OS
# on /dev/sdb2
title		Windows Vista/Longhorn (loader) # <-- German recovery partition.
root		(hd1,1)
savedefault
makeactive
map		(hd0) (hd1)
map		(hd1) (hd0)
chainloader	+1

And the fun gets better.

Log into the German versions and the drives are completely re-mapped with different files, permissions, Dir trees, etc.

Log into the "normal" recovery Partition and all attempts to Recover end in "Unspecified Error".

Fun eh?

 

[linney]

I can't offer much advice on the Linux side of things it is not an operating system that I am familiar with, and to be fair this is a Vista forum. Tek-Tips does run a Linux forum here and you may find some more expert help in that if you want to increase your search net.

http://www.tek-tips.com/threadminder.cfm?pid=619

If the Recover partitions are not working and reporting an unspecified error could this be that that the original configuration of the hard drive(s) is not the same as when the Recovery partition was (I assume) created by the OEM?

If you have Recovery partitions does that mean that you do not have access to a Vista DVD and, dare I say it, the Startup Repair and recovery options offered by that?

Windows Vista Recovery Disc Download

http://neosmart.net/blog/2008/windows-vista-recovery-disc-download/

Are the German operating systems bootable and seemingly working as per normal? Can you do anything with those if you use the appropriate MUI and convert it to English?

Vista is more amiable to such a conversion, more so than XP ever was. Mind you I have read this next post several times now and still I am not sure whether you can convert the language (via MUI) after Setup has been run, and if you can, whether it applies to anything less than Vista Ultimate?

Can I switch German version to English?

http://forums.techarena.in/vista-help/707453.htm

Guide to Windows Vista Multilingual User Interface

http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc721887(WS.10).aspx

Language Packs and MUI are different maybe that is they key? A Language Pack will give you some English dialog in menus and other areas of Vista, and as Vista is supposed to be "Language Neutral", it may be sufficient to get you around in the German version?

When in the German, the drives might swap around, because Windows likes to have and call the booted operating system C:, even if it is seen as E:, F;, or G:, from other (when booted) Windows operating systems. The access permissions are dependent on the loaded system but apply to all the drives as seen by that system.

HOW TO: Take Ownership of a File or Folder in Windows XP (or Vista)

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/308421/en-us

Error Message: "Access Is Denied" When You Try to Open NTFS File System Folders

http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;EN-US;Q823306#appliesto

I hope you enjoy your "fun" but one day get Vista working again. I can only emphasize that a flashing cursor on a black screen is often due to booting problems caused by incorrect booting files where Windows doesn't know where it is supposed to be booting from.

This is just a bit of info, (a guide if you like), although XP related. Just look at the Causes mentioned. Cause 1, is what you probably experienced with the USB, Cause 2 is the more common cause of problems like this. The rest of the article is not Vista applicable but still worth a glance.

Computer stops responding with a black screen when you start Windows XP

http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;314503&FR=1&PA=1&SD=HSCH

 

[eVAPor8]

Linney,

Yet again, you seem to either miss the point or are scan-reading and misunderstanding the problem. (No offence intended, since we've been posting in two separate but related threads over the last few days).

"this is a Vista forum"
And it's a Vista problem.

"If you have Recovery partitions does that mean that you do not have access to a Vista DVD and, dare I say it, the Startup Repair and recovery options offered by that?"

Obviously. Recovery Parts = no proper media. Try buying any computer these days and watch M$ rub there hands.

"Are the German operating systems bootable and seemingly working as per normal?"

Yes.

"Can you do anything with those if you use the appropriate MUI and convert it to English?"

No. CP will offer to change the language and then fail since th image's Language Packs are not installed.

HOW-TO and Error Message Links:

Irrelevant. They rely on a working GUI. The problem is there ISN'T one. As previously stated, the system will boot all the way to handing over the boot-mode GFX drivers and Launching Explorer at which point it falls into an endless Driver-Search loop and hangs at the black screen.

Oh, and no offence but a link telling me to remove CD's from the drive or run fixmbr on a machine that is trying to display the desktop is not only way off topic but TBH bloody insulting.

To this end I've created a new thread because

a) I feel I'm hijacking this one.
b) I can stab wildly in the dark and search google myself, thanks.

 

[BadBigBen]

eVAPor8 - if you are not using the GERMAN installs, then by all means remove them...

if you want them just gone from GRUB, then edit the appropriate lines or REM them, e.g. adding a # before the GRUB commands...

FROM:

# This entry automatically added by the Debian installer for a non-linux OS
# on /dev/sdb1
title        Windows Vista/Longhorn (loader) # <-- hidden "German" partition. Looks like part of the manufacturer's OS/Software setup
root        (hd1,0)
savedefault
makeactive
map        (hd0) (hd1)
map        (hd1) (hd0)
chainloader    +1

to

# This entry automatically added by the Debian installer for a non-linux OS
# on /dev/sdb1
#title Windows Vista/Longhorn (loader) # <-- hidden "German" partition. Looks like part of the manufacturer's OS/Software setup
#root (hd1,0)
#savedefault
#makeactive
#map (hd0) (hd1)
#map (hd1) (hd0)
#chainloader +1

There are two reasons why the partitions are swapped, one is due to the install as VISTA will mostly install itself as C, no matter where on the drive it is or on what drive it is on, and the other is the MAP command in GRUB, it switches the DRIVES around so that Windows (DOS) things it is on the PRIMARY drive...

see:

http://www.gnu.org/software/grub/manual/html_node/map.html

now to the VISTA problem, this can also happen when the BIOS settings for the USB devices are messed up, or if the SATA settings get switched from COMPATIBILITY MODE to AHCI or vice-versa, or if the GFX drivers are messed up, and/or if you have nForce Chipset (most of these I've encountered because of the nForce Chipset)...

to remove drivers or disable them in a console, under Windows, use the DevCon package, have a read:

The DevCon command-line utility functions as an alternative to Device Manager

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/311272

PS:

To this end I've created a new thread because

Where?

Ben
"If it works don't fix it! If it doesn't use a sledgehammer..."
How to ask a question, when posting them to a professional forum.
Only ask questions with yes/no answers if you want "yes" or "no"

 

[linney]

Did you really read my comments, I was talking about Vista and not XP, and the German version of Vista too. That Disk I linked to is a Vista recovery CD, a substitute if you do not have access to Startup and Recovery options in Vista, not XP.

Windows Vista Recovery Disc Download

http://neosmart.net/blog/2008/windows-vista-recovery-disc-download/

"No. CP will offer to change the language and then fail since th image's Language Packs are not installed"


In the German version, can you unhide Windows Updates that are hidden, and get a list of available updates, and select the language pack for English? Hopefully Windows Update will then install it for you.

"Log into the German versions and the drives are completely re-mapped with different files, permissions, Dir trees, etc."

This is why I submitted those links about Access Denied and Taking Ownership. They apply equally to Vista or XP.


"telling me to remove CD's from the drive or run fixmbr."

The only link that might have mentioned that was clearly preceded by my comment

"This is just a bit of info, (a guide if you like), although XP related. Just look at the Causes mentioned. Cause 1, is what you probably experienced with the USB, Cause 2 is the more common cause of problems like this. The rest of the article is not Vista applicable but still worth a glance.

I emphasize the "Just look at the Causes mentioned" and "The rest of the article is not Vista applicable but still worth a glance". In other words I wanted to refer you to the causes, not the XP solutions. A recommendation to "glance" is hardly a recommendation to apply the information for XP to Vista, especially as it was clearly stated that it does not apply to Vista.

As to FixMbr, the Vista equivalent of that XP command is covered in this Vista article -

How to use the Bootrec.exe tool in the Windows Recovery Environment to troubleshoot and repair startup issues in Windows Vista

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/927392#appliesto

Yes, if you THINK you have gone past the booting stage then it would be unnecessary in those circumstances and the cause will be elsewhere, but what is the harm in knowing about such tools for future reference?

The above mentioned "Windows Recovery Environment" being accessed by the Startup Repair option (which you say you don't have) OR the Disc for downloading that I tried to get you to at least look at.

These tools are also available in the "Windows Recovery Environment".

How to use the Command Prompt in the Vista Windows Recovery Environment

http://www.bleepingcomputer.com/tutorials/tutorial147.html

Using System Restore from the Vista Windows Recovery Environment

http://www.bleepingcomputer.com/tutorials/tutorial142.html

Ben as offered some good ideas and possible solutions for you.

 

[eVAPor8]

@Ben

Thanks for that, some useful info there, shame HP has a crappy BIOS ... As to "Where?", the damn thing's disappeared without all trace. I must have closed the browser too quickly after Submitting the thread.

Oh and Linney mate. Trust me. I "THINK" the machine just might have passed the boot stage because it's set it for a text startup and I watch the drivers scroll up the screen, pause at crcdisk.sys (as usual)... watch the display flick as it tries to load the GFX drivers, display a mouse-movable pointer and then... well... do nothing - as I've previously stated.

I always appreciate relevant help and advice - but specious, tangential guesswork "solutions" (all others' work) combined with a level of arrogance and condescension that I've rarely witness in ANY professional environment.

And as far as "what is harm in knowing about such tools for future reference?"

Well, I do know about them. Perhaps you'll link the whole of Technet and MSDN next time. After all, it might be completely irrelevant to the issue at hand, but it can't help, eh? :roll:

I'll re-do a new thread later since I'm busy right now and this is becoming a pointless point-scoring flamewar. I honestly can't be bothered with such inanity, and as a member of T-T since 2005 I find it wholly inappropriate.



Many apologies to dustervoice for an unintentional hijack.

 

[BadBigBen]

with a level of arrogance and condescension

I have not experienced nor seen that in Linney's POSTS...

as a member of T-T since 2005 I find it wholly inappropriate.

and Linney has been since 2001...

We will just leave it at that, and cool ourselves down...

Now to your problem:

watch the display flick as it tries to load the GFX drivers, display a mouse-movable pointer and then... well... do nothing

tells me that the GFX driver has already loaded and that the switch to EXPLORER (the LOGONUI) is where the problem is located...

crcdisk.sys - is usually the very last driver that gets displayed, after which it goes into

Try to gain access to the F8 Boot Menu...

Press F8 key during bootup, select "Enable boot logging"
"Creates a file, ntbtlog.txt, that lists all the drivers that are installed during startup and that might be useful for advanced troubleshooting."

Other things to try:

Remove any PCI cards...
Update BIOS...


Ben
"If it works don't fix it! If it doesn't use a sledgehammer..."
How to ask a question, when posting them to a professional forum.
Only ask questions with yes/no answers if you want "yes" or "no"

 

[linney]

For the record I sincerely apologize if you have found my posting unhelpful or offensive this is not my intention, never is, or has been my intentions in all the time I have been posting here.

Why is it that the German Vista works correctly but the English version is having problems? It is hard to see that hardware is a problem in that situation, or that the Bios is the cause. That leaves drivers or the operating system itself as a likely source of the problem.

See the paragraph, "Use the Windows Recovery Environment to repair Windows Vista" in this article.

After you install a device or update a driver for a device, Windows Vista may not start

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/927525

The part of the article that you may be interested in is "Use the Command Prompt option in the Windows Recovery Environment to disable the driver that stops Windows Vista from starting". Again you will need to download the Disc I have previously mentioned, or borrow a Vista retail DVD, to access the Recovery Environment.

Another consideration is that The working German versions seem to be on a different hard drive than the non-working English version, so perhaps there is a hard drive problem?

The drive manufacturer will have free bootable software to thoroughly check the condition of the hard drive on their web site. You could run ChkDsk from the Command Prompt in the Recovery Environment too.

A faulty hard drive might also explain as to why the Recovery Partition cannot get get going and give you the much easier option of, after saving your data, to restore the operating system to the factory release state?