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Virus Hell 4

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welshtroll

welshtroll

Programmer
Nov 29, 2001
55
GB
(In this message I'll be using the UK as my example but please feel free to post comments regarding your location.)

"Getting the country online", that's the message delivered by the UK government. But then the support of the online community is completely forgotten. No or little information on Anti-virus or firewall software is given to increase public awareness. In an age where the next email you open could wipe your entire hard drive more information should be given to unsuspecting PC owners.

In the last major outbreaks of computer virus the UK has been the hardest hit, seeing a large if not the largest percentage of infections occurring in the UK (source:messagelabs.com). The reason is simple UK Internet users aren't aware of how to update/upgrade key components of their system to reduce risk of infection.

Sorry for saying but, the standard UK user is very computer illiterate, having little or no knowledge of what Anti-virus software can do or how to use it.
But I hear you say, anti-virus software comes with utilities to allow it you automatically update the software with the user getting involved.

This is often the case but the software that comes pre-installed on most Store bought PCs has a life-span of about 6 - 12 months. What happens when your subscription to these services expires? Will the standard UK user rush out and get the latest version or renew their subscription? I think not. Near useless versions of anti-virus software sit on hundreds of computers throughout the country if not the world.

I fear another problem is the length of time spend online, how many users just pop-online to check there mail. For some this task may take an hour, for some it can be anywhere between 2-10 minutes while your email is download to your offline mailbox. Enough time to download an AntiVirus upgrade?

UK mailboxes have become a haven for electronic viruses, hundreds of unsuspecting ill informed/ ill advised users download new and old virus into there mailbox on a daily basis.


[The ratio of one in every 212 emails containing a virus in 2002 shows a dramatic increase on previous years. In 2001, MessageLabs stopped an average one every 380 emails, while in 2000 the figure was as low as one every 790.]

And finally my questions:
Do you think should there be a national support group for home users to contact, to ask questions regarding online safety?
Perhaps a booklet included with all new store bought PC's?
Could your email provider do more to protect you?
Where will the Virus problem be in 5 years? 1 in 100 emails?


'... and then it wouldn't compile?'
t_avatar.jpg
 
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welshtroll:
Your ideas have merit.

...national support group...? A good idea, but one that would be best created through a grass-roots effort. Getting a government involved could end up being counter-productive -- remember the old adage about the fact that a camel is a horse designed by a committee.

...booklet included...? This, I think, is an excellent idea. I recommend that you contact users groups in your area to get ideas together as to what the content of the booklet should be, then contact the stores in your area with the idea of their supporting publication of the text as a valued-added feature of the service of their stores.

...email provider...protect you? I have found that antivirus methodology works best with a "belt and suspenders" approach. Catching virii at the servers is good, and so is catching them at the client machines. Making an effort to catch them in both places is better still, particularly if the antivirus software in the two places are by different vendors.

[i...virus problem...5 years...?[/i] I wanted to touch on this question so that you knew I had not ignored it, but I have no information on this.


Want the best answers? Ask the best questions: TANSTAAFL!
 
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welshtroll,
Some very good ideas, excellent.
Have been working on a system that had 500+ viri on it.
Sad to say the owners were unaware that they would need to update their subscription.
From my experience this problem is on the increase and your suggestion of 1 in 100 emails will be achieved in 1 to 2 year period, maximum.

There is a lack of understanding within the general public with regard to the virus, spyware and other security related problems.
One of my latest customers had a £1000+ telephone bill due to p*** diallers, yes more than one on the same computer.

Your question with regard to time spent online is a valid one, Broadband is increasing the problem. People are unaware of the pitfalls awaiting them.

There are as you correctly state hundreds (most probably thousands)of people given terrible advice on how to protect their systems.
A senior citizen I helped passed on a virus to 57 people who were in his address book. Of those 57 there were only four who had what I consider to be minimal protection. It is easy for the virus to propagate so quickly.

To answer your questions.
1. Support group, yes.
2. Booklet. Very good idea, could be available at local service outlets country wide.
3.Email provider, not so sure on this one. Would they want to?
4.Answered the email question above.

Very good thread.



Ted

Proofread carefully to see if you any words out
 
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1. Have Microsoft/all email programs disable attachments that can do anything at all, and have the users work to get these attachments "opened". If you are forwarding a screen saver, the receiver of that forward will have to click on the file, save it to the hard drive, find it and open it. There will be no option to disable this extra work for executable files. Double-clicking on the attachment will ONLY show a stern warning.

2. Have Microsoft disable active scripting on HTML emails, or add another security zone to their Internet settings: "Email", which by default disables ALL active content of EVERY type. What "personal friend" sends you HTML with active javascript anyway?


I'm sick of seeing email viruses spread by nothing but human ignorance and programmatical lazzeiz faire (sp?). When I get my email, the only people who use multimedia jazzy/snazzy features are the advertisers anyway. So disable it all, I say. If they want to see it, tell them it doesn't work - disable it by default. If they figure out how to re-enable it, let them do so, but don't make it easy. The "make it default" rule of economics makes it standard for 99% of users, which means that 99% of your users will be *invulnerable* by default rather than *vulnerable* by default. In this way we can prevent virii from reaching critical mass and making news on CNN.


As for internet worms, linux programs have security vulnerabilities too. Not as many as Windows, and probably less every year, but they still exist--and it only takes one vulnerability to spread a worm. Thus linux won't solve all our virus problems--I'm saying this and I'm the president of the Linus Torvalds fanclub! Linux server admins are more savvy about installing security patches than the Windows server admins--if they're running Linux in the first place they probably HAD to know more about security than Windows admins just to set up the machine--BUT in the future of "Linux everywhere", you will have the current Windows server admins running Linux servers. Think about that. ESPECIALLY if you foster the idea of "Linux is an inpenetrable wall of O.S." early.



What I'm really worried about are these new brand of pseudo-virii--these new invisible trojans installed on your computer. For myself, I tell everyone to make sure they have a firewall installed and jack their Internet security settings up. These are the new virii, and no one even knows they're infected! Most troubling are the sticky programs that attempt to re-install themselves after you have deleted them, or programs like Kazaa that leave the spyware on your machine even after you uninstall Kazaa itself.
 
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>you will have the current Windows server admins running
>Linux servers. Think about that

Ah, the common bigotry that Windows sysadmins are somehow less able and competent than Linux sysadmins...
 
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Let me explain my admin discrimination "racialWindows profiling":

The barrier of entry for linux is quite steep. Make of this what you will, but I see some undeniable consequences:
1. It is easier to set up a NT-based server to working "production mode" than a Linux server
2. It is equally hard to set up and maintain security properly on NT-based systems and Linux systems.
3. As a result of #1 and #2, you end up with more vulnerable NT-based systems, unless some other factor increases the security of NT (like an auto-updater - oh wait, that's for linux).
4. The other result is that you have some horribly misconfigured Linux servers out there, which I am sure occurs to some lesser extent.


Now, as I was saying, in the future, if Linux ever gets user-friendly (it is not now user-friendly in my opinion), this barrier of entry will lower, and we will see more badly-administered machines.


Also in the future, if Linux gets any part of the desktop user market share, virii will be written specifically for Linux--so "get Linux" is at best a temporary solution (though it is a solid solution for avoiding email virii).
 
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Personally I have always suspected "antivirus" makers of being behind many viruses, but that could be excessively paranoid.

I wonder if those AV programs preinstalled on consumer machines (the ones that go stale but continue to run) aren't just there to help wear out the hard drive, causing Joe Sixpack to buy a new computer.
 
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Thanks for all your posts
xutopia
I am in the process on trying to use linux more often, but for a standard home user with little PC knowledge I feel Linux, is one step beyond them.

sleipnir214
You're right about the support group, not involving the government would be the best option, they have a way of messing things up.

Cheers for your feedback on the booklet idea, I feel this would benefit All new PC purchasers.
Where-as the support group would benefit existing PC owners.

greyted
I totally agree that
'There is a lack of understanding within the general public with regard to the virus, spyware and other security related problems.'
I recently saw a friend's machine, which launched at least 5 pop-up windows just on connecting to the Internet. And once these where closed another 5 - 10 replaced them. When asked about it the user said that they just thought it was part of their ISP connection.
With broadband taking hold in the UK now, I believe that's is even more of a reason to get information to Joe Public.

foolio12
I like the thinking behind your ideas to make user 99% invulnerable to start with and most often that not users would remain at this level due to automatic acceptance of the system set-up.

dilettante
I'm not too sure about your first statement :)

But having users with not knowledge of security, must earn PC stores a nice income. Seeing that damage caused by virii is not 'normally' covered in any warranty. Replacements of hard drives must skyrocket.

Again, thank you all, guess I'll try and get the ball rolling on some of these ideas.



t_avatar.jpg
<br>'... and then it wouldn't compile?'
 
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Linux of course isn't the answer.
Virusses and worms typically are targetted at the largest possible source of victims which currently is Windows.

Once the majority of people start using Linux, that will shift and virus makers will target that OS instead.
And it's vulnerable. In fact, it's full of holes and probably getting worse. The number of people tinkering with it and putting out their versions and updates almost guarantees that.
Most distributions install by default with open mail gateways, telnet servers, etc. which make them a happy feeding ground for intruders.
The only thing that prevents this from being exploited more is that most potential intruders are looking elsewhere, either at potentials Windows vulnerabilities or the far larger corporate Unix servers.

And don't think that just because there is a password required to gain root access on Linux will protect the average user.
Most root passwords are so simple any fool with a password generating script can crack them in minutes.
 
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welshtroll,

&quot;I am in the process on trying to use linux more often, but for a standard home user with little PC knowledge I feel Linux, is one step beyond them.&quot;

I have to agree that it isn't quite up to par yet with usability and compatibility. There is still a ways to go for general acceptance but already after trying redhat 9.0 I was convinced that Linux on the desktop had a future.

jwenting,

&quot;Virusses and worms typically are targetted at the largest possible source of victims which currently is Windows.&quot;

You are right. Virus writers want to reach the most hosts as they can with their virus. But a distinction here needs to be made.

Writing viruses under Window is as easy as point-and-click (
Writing a virus for Linux is a challenge and usually cannot spread very much because users are sandboxed (only root has full access to everything).

The spread of email virii is yet unseen and unheard of in Linux, macro virii is the same. Truth is Windows is a less secure OS.

Gary Haran
********************************
 
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Writing Windows virusses is now point and click because it paid to write virus creation tools for the platform.
This is a relatively new phenomenon. Initially (and Linux is in that stage now) virus authors wrote everything by hand in C and Asm.

The moment Linux (or whatever) reaches the market penetration where people start writing virusses in bulk for it, such tools will appear for that platform too.
 
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While this isn't technically on topic, please forgive me:

I was always under the impression that the reason Linux was not a &quot;Virus Victim&quot; because of its design, not market share.

Is this not true ?
 
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While this isn't technically on topic, please forgive me:

I was always under the impression that the reason Linux was not a &quot;Virus Victim&quot; because of its design, not market share.

Is this not true ?
 
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Well, we can certainly forgive you for asking the question, but do you want forgiveness for asking it twice? :-D

I think that market share is most definately a parameter in the virus world. To get the most bang for the buck, virii authors go after the largest possible audience.

Good Luck
--------------
As a circle of light increases so does the circumference of darkness around it. - Albert Einstein
 
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Alas yes, double posting was not my fault &quot;honest guv&quot;.

It would be nice if the next big virus (not that I want there to be one of course) was Linux orientated, just to see how much chaos it caused in comparison.
 
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