Ban Virus writers from owning a PC? 3

[GwydionM]

In know this idea cuts across the libertarian ideals of lots of computer people. But these ideas have not worked: people will be irresponsible or selfish, especially when there is money to be made. And the more people get away with morally bad behaviour, the more others will copy.

From past debates, I assume people will complain that
a) It won't get rid of the crime
b) Innocents might possibly be punished.
But that's also true of existing laws against dangerous driving - which does result in driving bans, though maybe not enough. It applies to existing laws against murder, blackmail, rape, burglary, would you like to be without those laws?

You could also have a ban on owning virus-writing tools, and distributing them, with special licences for anti-Virus companies.

(Though I can's help suspecting that it is the less scrupulous of the anti-Virus companies who wrote some of the stuff, drumming up business in the way the author of the Sassor worm is said to have been doing. Still, it would help to remove the background of 'pranksters' who find it funny to inflict misery on strangers.)

------------------
A view from the UK

 

[SGTRawlins]

SemperFiDownUnda - Admitendly my comment was a bit "creative" however i have been "lucky?" with virus protecteion and in several years of experience have managed to protect my network again every major threat that has come around!

My point was - People winge far to much about the damages done about viruses, everyone is aware of thier motives and capabilities, in most cases these people are following the rock'n'roll ethic of "sticking it to the man", modern day hippies perhaps?

The raging war between corperate (galiaths) and the virus writters (david) is one that will go on and all one can do is try not to get caught in the cross fire.

If you do, then just deal with it. it may make me dangerously minded but i know that if i were going to jail for any reason - computer crime would probablu be top of my wish list! shows intelect dont you think?

I do not support the scripters, or what they do, but they will do it irrespective of our views and efforts so ........... Alway the optomist, it's only a game at the end of the day, we all decide to play, if you dont like the rules, then ....

 

[lionelhill]

But do be careful of terminology. This is not David and Goliath. Goliath was bad, David was good. Being an individual doesn't make you automatically posessor of the moral high ground. Virus writers are Selfish, Vain, and Bad, and not some sort of Robin Hood-esque freedom fighters helping the poor and needy against nasty Microsoft.

 

[Dimandja]

SemperFiDownUnda: I guess you don't mind if someone breaks into your house, steals all your valueable

Let's not forget, virus makers do get arrested and prosecuted. There are laws against these things. Nobody said these goons should be allowed to go free. There is simply no need for vigilantism.

 

[rasETL]

Virus Writers, Millions of Porn Sites, SPAM, ADS, etc...

That's what you get when you have a free, totally uncontrolled environment like the Internet.

Unless the virus impacts millions of PC's globally, no one will be caught, much less persecuted.

Face it - we will have to learn to live with the Internet just as people did in the wild, wild west.

 

[Dimandja]

Sure enough rasanders,

As I mentioned in another thread, Internet is a world wide public web. If anyone wants privacy (who doesn't?), there are plenty of private networks out there.

Connecting your machine to Internet is like building a house in the middle of town, with wide open windows, and demanding a lock to your front door.

Of course we should endeavour to close the gaping holes to our private machines; however, we should be realistic and recognize Internet for what it is. The last thing I (and many) want is some sort of government regulated - and ownership - Internet.

It's public, but let's be responsible!

Dimandja

 

[SF18C]

rasanders:
In the Wild-wild-west the good guys shot the bad guys at high noon on main street!


Dimanja:
We could have very powerful magnets surgically implanted in the head of convicted virus writers and every time he got close to a PC it would wipe out the drive!


I hate virus writers, bandwidth thieves, SPAMMERS and pop-up porn ads, but it does make the job interesting and although I don't think any law will fix any situation 100% of the time, more could and should be done in those cases where there is proof against an individual. Hard time may not always rehabilitate, but it does stop that individual from doing while under lock down!

just my 2 Euro Cents

SF18C
CCNP, MCSE, A+, N+ & HPCC
Tis better to die on your feet than live on your knees!

 

[SemperFiDownUnda]

... in most cases these people are following the rock'n'roll ethic of "sticking it to the man", modern day hippies perhaps?

But this isn't what they are doing....its like Robin Hood stealing to from the rich but 1) he isn't giving to the pour and 2) on his way to steal from the rich he's burning down the entire city including the poor peoples homes as a diversion from his greed motivated theft.

Hehehe lionelhill - I wrote the above before reading your post

Let's not forget, virus makers do get arrested and prosecuted. There are laws against these things. Nobody said these goons should be allowed to go free. There is simply no need for vigilantism.

Did I make it sound like I want to take a baseball bat to the virus writers heads? If so sorry....what I want is stiff laws and judges that will enforce those laws on those that are found guilty.

As I mentioned in another thread, Internet is a world wide public web. If anyone wants privacy (who doesn't?), there are plenty of private networks out there.

True....but the internet is just a bunch of roads and people and organisations with shops on those roads. When you step over the line and start hacking into peoples machines that is the same as going in and vandalising your local corner store. You walk into a store with a bat, go back into the store room and goto town ... is the shop owner responcible for your actions?

No ... People are on the net because it is infrastructure. Just because some people break the rules doesn't mean that its thoses that get hurt fault.

With your analogy

Connecting your machine to Internet is like building a house in the middle of town, with wide open windows, and demanding a lock to your front door.

While I agree you have to be stupid if you leave your windows open and all its still not your fault if you get robbed.

FFS I can rob probably any bank. Should I? I mean is it my fault if they don't do a strip and body cavity search of me before I walk up to a teller? Guess I'll go down and rob some banks because their security isn't 100%

Nothing is 100%. Your house isn't invunerable from thieves but I don't blame you if you get robbed.

Of course we should endeavour to close the gaping holes to our private machines; however, we should be realistic and recognize Internet for what it is

agreed....but as we are getting there lets not just let those that break the laws walk off scott free.



Hope I've been helpful,
Wayne Francis

If you want to get the best response to a question, please check out FAQ222-2244 first

 

[Dimandja]

but as we are getting there lets not just let those that break the laws walk off scott free.

We don't. I posted the news of the Sasser kid arrest in another thread here. There are new ways being developed everyday to combat these criminals.

All I am saying, SemperFiDownUnda, is be careful what you expose to Internet: it is not as safe as expectations described in some posts here would imply.

Dimandja

 

[CajunCenturion]

You guys seem to forget there is a big difference between privacy and security. The people in the all-windowed house in the middle of town should have no reasonable expectation of privacy, but they should still feel secure from illegal activity.

Good Luck
--------------
As a circle of light increases so does the circumference of darkness around it. - Albert Einstein

 

[Chance1234]

This thread has been making laugh,

If you did ban virus writers from owning a PC , which btw i think is an extremly daft idea,

I would love to see the legal definition of a computer from which they would be banned from using.

condisdering practically everything has got a chip in it these days and that more and more things are talking to each other.

Also, Virus writing tools would that mean banning them from having a notepad and piece of paper ? also how would anti virus company be affected by these laws?

condisdering that most of these virus writers are spotty teens called Urgen and Pete from canada and germany, surely a far better punishment would be for them to be sent to bed with out any dinner and given a clip round the ear hole.

Filmmaker, gentleman and [#Error]

http://WWW.5YLAC.S5.COM

http://WWW.HOWTOBESPOOKY.CO.UK

 

[CajunCenturion]

.. also how would anti virus company be affected by these laws?

Are you suggesting that we look the other way and allow virii writers to continue so that the anti-virus companies stay in business? Are our priorities in order here?

Good Luck
--------------
As a circle of light increases so does the circumference of darkness around it. - Albert Einstein

 

[Chance1234]

no, what im saying is if you bought in legislation to stop anyone owning virus writing tools etc etc, at the end of the day, virus will still get written. also couldnt any programming language be called a virus tool.

Now for a virus company to operate surely they need access to the tools , etc but if they did then they would be breaking the law themselves.



Filmmaker, gentleman and [#Error]

http://WWW.5YLAC.S5.COM

http://WWW.HOWTOBESPOOKY.CO.UK

 

[CajunCenturion]

Understood

Good Luck
--------------
As a circle of light increases so does the circumference of darkness around it. - Albert Einstein

 

[SemperFiDownUnda]

All I am saying, SemperFiDownUnda, is be careful what you expose to Internet: it is not as safe as expectations described in some posts here would imply.

I completely agree with you but with your statement of

As I mentioned in another thread, Internet is a world wide public web. If anyone wants privacy (who doesn't?), there are plenty of private networks out there.

Connecting your machine to Internet is like building a house in the middle of town, with wide open windows, and demanding a lock to your front door.

it sounds like you are saying people are stupid for connnecting their machines to the internet.

They HAVE to in many case as this is like a shop. Sure they can have a safe store that is in the middle of no where surrounded by a 10' thick cement wall but how many customers are they going to get? And as far as private citizians its like saying to someone that got hit by a drunk driver that it is their fault they where on the roads not the drunk driver. They should have found another way to get where they wanted to go.

Once agian I agree the only safe computer is one that is not plugged in to anything (including power) locked deep inside a vault....and I'll add to that the computer better be melted down....but you know what....that computer is useless.

I'm sorry but this is confusing to me

I posted the news of the Sasser kid arrest in another thread here

didn't Sleipir post that ?
Anyway what I'm talking about is that many people advocate that they shouldn't get much of a sentance because they are just kids or that they didn't know what they where doing or they where just sticking it to the man. I'm not saying that arrests aren't being made. I'm saying that the punishment for these crimes do not fit the crime. If I cause 1 billion dollars worth of damages because of a crime I commited do you think 5 years in jail is appropriate to the crime? That is what I'm saying about that.

CajunCenturion - good point.

Chance1234 - I in no way think that people should be banned from this type of information or as you put it "tools". It is the way you use the "tools" that makes it illegal. Now if Joe blogs goes out and kills 5 people with a claw hammer do we ban the use of claw hammers by carpenters? No we lock up Joe so he doesn't get into a situation where he's not around a claw hammer and other people until he is rehabilitated.

There is debates going around in a similar but more deadly circle. Biological engineering....should this type of knowledge be controled by the government? I'm not just talking about how to construct virus x but the concepts behind genetic engineering. I'd rather have as many people schooled in the field as possible for the time when that crazy person does engineer a biological virus an release it so that as many heads as we have can be put towards finding a cure. But this is just my opinion.


Hope I've been helpful,
Wayne Francis

If you want to get the best response to a question, please check out FAQ222-2244 first

 

[sleipnir214]

<facetious>

I posted the news of the Sasser kid arrest in another thread here

didn't Sleipir post that ?

SemperFiDownUnda, I was wondering about that, myself.
</facetious>



Want the best answers? Ask the best questions!

TANSTAAFL!!

 

[Dimandja]

Then, you didn't see this?

Dimandja (Programmer) May 18, 2004
Nabbed:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4946173/

 

[sleipnir214]

You mean the post you made in a thread I started on that topic?



Want the best answers? Ask the best questions!

TANSTAAFL!!

 

[Dimandja]

Yes. I did not read your article, though. So I posted the arrest news. Sorry about the confusion. Are you guys going to hang me for this?

 

[sleipnir214]

<facetious>
You're in luck because today is an odd-numbered Friday. We don't hang people on odd-numbered Fridays.
</facetious>



Want the best answers? Ask the best questions!

TANSTAAFL!!

 

[SemperFiDownUnda]

hehehe no worries Dimandja but Sleipnir's article did not explicitedly say he was arrested it did say

He was released hours later without having to pay bail because authorities said they did not fear he would flee.

Which basically means he was arrested and released without bail. So I knew he was arrested from that article already.

Sorry I was being pedantic.

Hope I've been helpful,
Wayne Francis

If you want to get the best response to a question, please check out FAQ222-2244 first