verifone cc machine won't break dial tone

[Phoneguy15]

I have a location that is using a VeriFone credit card machine for cash advances.
The verifone will not break dial tone when it tries to dial out. I have tried it going through the phone system and directly on two different service providers telco lines.
They have AT&T and Knology (Knology is a cable service provider that also provides dial tone) phone service located at their building.
If they take the machine to another branch it works fine.
If they bring another machine to this branch it doesn't work either.
All the other phone service functions work fine. They can call in and out on the phone system. The fax machine works fine inbound and outbound.
It's only a problem with the cash advance machine.
I don't know whether to tell them it's a service provider problem or if it's a problem with the machine.
They had a different vendor for the previous machines that they used and that vendor provided a newer machine than the one they have now.

Thanks for any help

Todd

 

[phoneguyjr]

Have you tried to use the CC machine on the same number as a fax to test. If you are using lines that are not configured as a fax/modem through the cable modem, it may not work properly. Also, have you used a test set to verify that the line is there? Do you hear the modem trying to call out through a test set connected to the same line and in monitor? Hopefully that gives you a start.

 

[cwc3]

rotary lines? did you listen across the line with a buttset
or digitgrabber?

 

[Phoneguy15]

I have tried connecting the CC machine to every line at the Demark (two "voice" lines a fax line and the "knology" line). The Knology line does not port out througha cable modem. They use a "smart box" that the cable connects to and then puts out up to 4 analog lines.
BTW, I dsconnected all the inside wiring including surge suppression from the line at the RJ21X when I tested the machine there. I wanted to make sure nothing inside was interfering with it at all.

I did listen with a buttset but I don't have a digit grabber. I can hear the digits being toned out across the line but dial tone is never broken.

When I'm monitoring the call, the dial tone gets really loud and noisy when the CC machine tries to dial. Not sure what that's all about.

 

[donb01]

My first response was going to be to check to make sure the verifone wasn't set up for pulse dialing, and then I was going to suggest making sure the PBX port wasn't set up for pulse dialing, but then I read further and saw that you have connected it both to the PBX and direct to an outside line (which I assume is a 1MB plain old telephone line and not a ground-start trunk or something), and that you also brought in another one that was working somewhere else.

That kind of stumps me.... I don't mean to insult your intelligence, but I'm going down my "end user" list of questions here... Have you made sure that you are connecting the phone line to the jack on the back that says WALL, LINE, or TELCO, and not one that says EXT or has a phone handset icon or something? If you take a plain old cheesy telephone and connect it to that jack can you dial out using that phone? For 90% of devices today it doesn't matter, but did you check to make sure the jack is not wired with reverse polarity?

OK, that's about all I have in my bag of tricks without actually being there to see it.... )

 

[Phoneguy15]

donb01,
I was connecting directly to a loop start POTS line at the RJ21x Demark.
What I did was connect a biscuit jack with short jumper wires from the jack to the Bell side of the RJ21x. So I know the polarity was correct wiring wise. I did not check the polarity with my toner though, coming from the Bell side.
The back of the machine itself is not labled with "wall" or "phone" or anything, so I don't think it matters which port is connected to the phone line.
I didn't have a plain analog telephone set to connect directly to the line(s), but was able to dial out fine using my buttset and also when I cannect them back to the phone system or fax machine, all of those devices are able to dial just fine.
It seems to be only this CC device that is having the problem and only at this location.
I guess the next thing I can check is the line voltages on the phone lines both when they're idle and off hook. I'll have to dig up what those are suppose to be since I don't remember off the top of my head.
I'm pretty sure there is a range that they (The Service Provider) have to fall within when providing dial tone.

Thanks!

Todd

 

[donb01]

When you say "only this CC device and only at this location" - I thought you said earlier that you had brought a completely different working device from another location and that one wouldn't work either?

If that is the case I would probably rule out the device and look more to the line, although just for fun you could try plugging the RJ11 into a different port on the back of the unit is there are more than one (sometimes the designations are not at the port but on the bottom of the device under the port).

The only reason I brought up the jack thing is because some devices have a line jack and a second convenience jack that you can hook an extension phone to. As soon as the device goes off hook is disconnects the extension jack to prevent anyone from picking it up during the call and interrupting the transmission.

 

[cwc3]

whats loop current look like on the pots lines?
off hook voltage?

 

[telemarksman]

I would agree with other posters. Low voltage could be an issue. You need 48 volts or so. I have seen lines with 38 volts cause problems with FAX machine. I also agree that some ports on back of CC dialer could be WRONG. Some CC dialers only work over ETHERNET, so is that an issue?
Take the dialer next door and see if it works?

alwayslearning

 

[SNSSMIS]

Switch to Ethernet.

 

[ISDNman]

Here is my off the cuff guess

The terminal has relatively short DTMF tones. Quite possibly they are within spec, but the knology device may not be built on the standard (most people engineering this stuff these days are pretty ignorant). Or you may find the duration is illegally short on the terminal.

Beg, borrow, or steal a digit analyzer (or a scope will work) and find out how long the tones are. Compare these to the devices that work.

While you are at it check the level and twist on the tones from that same terminal.

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