user training, please help 3

[mikeleahy]

hi
i am a systems admin in a company with 150 users. i am only here 2 months. they have asked me to deliver training in word ,excel and powerpoint to business users in a hotel in 6 weeks time. i am an mcsa,mcse and ccna but i dont know the first thing about these apps. i use them on a very very basic level. the job spec didnt mention user training on these kind of apps. what i would be showing them, they know already. am i right in saying that this is the job of a trainer and i can say no to this. i mean i presume they want the users to be more professional in their work and only a pro trainer can do this?? very worried

 

[Welshbird]

Hi Mike,

That doesn't sound like a sysadmin role to me either. I would be discussing this with them again!

Fee

The question should be [red]Is it worth trying to do?[/red] not [blue] Can it be done?[/blue]

 

[mikeleahy]

thanks for the reply. i just need a concrete line to come from. im the sys admin / support as we have no support desk. but in your experience this is a job for a trainer am i right?? any good lines i can use to convince them of this. i just dont want to come across as not helpfup but i have to be firm

 

[Welshbird]

Does this Wiki article help you?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sysadmin

Fee

The question should be [red]Is it worth trying to do?[/red] not [blue] Can it be done?[/blue]

 

[mikeleahy]

oops. that docuemtn inlcudes

Other duties may include scripting or light programming, project management for systems-related projects, supervising or training computer operators

 

[Welshbird]

It does, but it also says that duties vary widely.

What does your job description say? Did you discuss this at interview?

Fee

The question should be [red]Is it worth trying to do?[/red] not [blue] Can it be done?[/blue]

 

[mikeleahy]

job spec was all about network ,servers, support, admin , projects etc. training was not mentioned at interview. by saying my duties vary widely means i should have to do it. what would you say to them

 

[Welshbird]

I think II would be honest and say

"Look, we didn't discuss training at this level or on these applications. I don't feel I have sufficient knowledge to give our users the best training here - how about I get some quotes from external training companies instead?"

Fee

The question should be [red]Is it worth trying to do?[/red] not [blue] Can it be done?[/blue]

 

[mikeleahy]

good. they have gotten some quotes already and have used external companies before. but i am new to the job and have done very well and have made myself appear to be very efficent so they said lets look into the possibility of IT being able to do the training. you try and do a good job and u get urself into trouble. . people make a living out of training word and excel am i right?

 

[Welshbird]

Absolutely. I've attended a fair few courses on these myself.

My current company has tried to use Interactive CD-Rom training, but it hasn't been all that successful. I'd recommend a good external trainer if funding permits.

Fee

The question should be [red]Is it worth trying to do?[/red] not [blue] Can it be done?[/blue]

 

[mikeleahy]

thanks for your help. what is your job title ??? why would u attend a few of these courses

 

[Welshbird]

My courses were all some years ago now! I'm now a product specialist for new data products, and I am doing this partly because I have had great training in the past.

My usual plan of getting the company to pay for training is to pinch a quote from someone's sig on TT (I forget who..)

"6 weeks of messing about and trial and error can save one whole day of training...."



Fee

The question should be [red]Is it worth trying to do?[/red] not [blue] Can it be done?[/blue]

 

[Lilliabeth]

"6 weeks of messing about and trial and error can save one whole day of training...."

That's great, mind if I use it?

Lilliabeth
-Why use a big word when a diminutive one will do?-

 

[samiam07]

I spent 10 years teaching Word, Excel, Access and Powerpoint. Many times I went into a company to re-teach a class or 10 that was done originally internally. They knew their own stuff backwards and forwards, but only dabbled in MS-Office and hated talking in front of groups.
If you don't know the subject matter well, you're better off having an outside company do the training.

 

[mikeleahy]

samiam07 - how do you think i could convince mgt that a day with a trainer is a lot cheaper in the long run than me first then a trainer after??

 

[fumei]

Whoa boy.

I have been deeply involved with Office product training/learning for 15 years. This has been needs analysis of staff to determine WHAT they need; writing learning material as well as delivering learning material.

I also researched and wrote the senior managment level position paper that created the job descriotions for our sysadmin people.

Senior sysadmin do not have training activities. Local sysadmins do. For years and years they never actually did any. They are now being forced to. Unfortunately, many of these "techies" are just that. They are good people, but they are not trainers. Actual trainers have a completely different skill set.

Even good knowledge of a subject does not mean a person is a capable or competent trainer.

If your managmebnt are asking you to be a stand-up classroom type trainer, and this is not one of your skill sets, then this is an unreasonabkle request. Especially if delivering training was not fully mentioned.

Training does not (IMO) fall under "other related duties".

To be fair, though, it needs to be clarified what it is they mean by training.

I developed a mentoring system to try and reduce the over-the-cubicle instructions so prevakent. A series of lunch-and-learn sessions on "chunked" topics that a techie could facilitate. Example: using Outlook rules, using Word tables, using Word styles. Chunks are BY FAR, really by far, mor efficient at learning. A full (say 5 day) course on Word will lose 80% of its value within two weeks. An hour session on the use of tables (and only tables) will sink in.

1. tell them that training is a good idea
2. tell them a reasonable needs analysis of what their people actually need to know is an even better idea.
3. tell them while a professional training comopany will, by its nature, want to sell you as much training as they can, having stand-up training (classroom) IF REQUIRED!!!! delivered by a professional is best.
4. tell them that in the face of above, if you aere still to be rquired to give training, you absolutely, no questioin about it, need decent material to work with.

faq219-2884

Gerry
My paintings and sculpture

 

[SkipVought]

Gerry, I concur 100% GREAT advice! ==> *

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[fumei]

I just want to add - besides commenting that my previous post was horrifically filled with typos! - that the needs analysis is a critical part of this.

I developed a package "Desktop Apps and You". It had about 20 - 30 questions and tasks for each Office apps. NB. this also included about 20 basic use of Windows questions/tasks.

There were two routes.

1. A local sysadmin (a "coach") sat with the person, and walked them through it. They used a Coaching Guide.

2. self-administered. They used a checklist type document.

Each person was then self-scored, or scored by a coach. 1 to 5, with 1 meaning no or little knowledge, 5 meaning expert competency. Obviously scoring by a coach gives more accurate numbers.

EXAMPLE (Word):

Self-assessment document.

#11 I know how to change page and paragraph formatting.
1 2 3 4 5

#12 I know how to set tabs, indent paragraphs and change line spacing.
1 2 3 4 5


Coaches document.

#11 - #12
Direction to participant: "Select one of the larger paragraphs, indent it by 0.5 inches, apply a 6-point space before and after it, and change the line spacing to 1.5 inches. Select a different paragraph and set tabs for that paragraph to 1.8 inches. Include a hanging indent of 1.8 inches as well."

Action: The participant makes the required changes. Styles can be used and discussed, but the participant may also use the ruler or the Paragraph comand on the Format menu.

See? In the coaches case, the coach actually asks the participant to do the actions. They do NOT (ever) tell them, even if asked, how to do it. They just ask them to do X Y Z. The coaches observes and the ]b]coach[/b] scores them.

This has some intuitive aspects. If someone does not know how to do something, but quickly figures it out...they are rated higher.

Whether self-assessed, or coached assessed, the numbers are crunched. Why?

Because by ALSO developing "chunked" learning material, it was easier to see things like:

hmmmm, this office knows Word pretty well, but MOST of them really do understand using tables very well. So...a focused training, on tables, can be delivered. Again, a one hour session in a boardroom, over lunch (if managers are good...provided) is the most efficient way to get that knowledge out.

I found - through bitter experience - that sending a group of people to a general course is mostly a waste of time. There will be people who know little, and people who know a lot. The people who do know, are bored. The people who don't know are confused. The instructor is stuck, as they can't give the people who don't know the attention they need. And they can't give the people who do know much value. By filling a class with people who basically all at the same level, everyone benefits.

Plus a general course by its nature IS general.

By getting some real numbers, on real subjects, we could direct our limited training rsources efficiently.

Needs analysis, and focused "chunked" training.

In another office, we determined that most people did not know (again) how to use tables very well at all. However....it was ALSO determined that.....they never used them!

So...ummmm.....we are going to spend money training them on something they will never use?

Can you say stupid?

Needs analysis, and focused "chunked" training. This can be stand-up training, a focused desk drop (we have a series called Getting The Most Of...; of Word, of Word tables, of Outlook, of Your Keyboard, of IT Security etc. etc. etc.); lunch-and-learn sessions; web-based tutorials, web-based classroom courses; take-home documents.

Good luck!


faq219-2884

Gerry
My paintings and sculpture

 

[mikeleahy]

so lads and laides from all you have told me i am definietly not a trainer as i have never used tables in word and dont know how to. not to mind excel. i will have my arguement prepared for management. thanks

 

[SkipVought]

I guess that you're elected to hang the bell on the cat.

Skip,
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