Upgrading, is it necessary?

[Sean2E30]

I've got a few quotes out for my current phone system. I have an ip403 office with 8 digital extensions which have 4412D+ and 4424D+ phones, and two analog lines for fax and a door page unit. For voicemail I have voicemail lite working on a windows PC.

Now I need to go with ten additional phones, and I would like to stick with digital phones but I'm up for IP phones. I would also like to upgrade to voicemail pro.

Is it worth it to jump up to an IP 406 or IP 500?

 

[gknight1]

there are a couple of things to consider.

do you have a VCM in your system? this is required to have IP phones. to check this you can open system monitor and select reconnect and at the top in should say "VCOMP:0 or 4", or whatever size VCM you may have.

if you decide to go with IP Phones one thing you will have to keep in mind is your network. is the switch/switches you have now able to be configured for QoS, if not you will need to purchase new switch? there are multiple things to be considered when going VoIP, and that is with any telephone system.

the 403 is becoming inferior to the 406 and 500 because i think you can only go to version 3.2 on the 403. i dont think Avaya is going to support them anymore, now that is not saying that you cannot get support, but just not from Avaya. from a technician stand point, i would much rather work on a 4.0 or 4.1 than 3.0 or 3.1.

 

[Duffman88]

Well to start the 403 is a discontinued product with little memory and from what an instructer told me they have some other misc problems. I personally do not have much experience w/ the 403. Only one client w/ one.

With the 403 you will not be able to support 4.0+ software revisions and the functionality and fixes they provide.

There are two ways to look at this.

First: Dont touch whats not broken. If it works and fits your company's needs you can just leave it alone and upgrade VM, add expansion module for the extra phones.

Second: If you are looking to upgrade to VMPro, add phones and may dabble in the new functionality that the 4+ software has to offer an upgrade isnt a bad option. You can upgrade to a 406V2 and still run the 4400 series phones you currently have and add a DS16 for the new phones.

With the IP500 you would need to run the Pro upgrade (needed for VMPro anyway) and a Digital Station 16 or 30 module to run the 4400 series phones. They will not run on the internal DS8 cards. You could run a DS16 + DS8 and get a total count of 24 extensions. I would just make the new phones 5400 series unless you want to stick with the 4400 series all around.

Either system can be configured a number of different ways. It all depends on how much you expect to grow in the future and what you are looking to do. I personally like the IP500 and I can see the 406V2 being the next box they discontinue.

Chris
ACA- Implement IP Office

 

[big70]

you can upgrade to the latest 3.2 version and use digital and ip-phones (only with vcm)

also upgrade to vm-pro with latest 3.2 release

of you don,t need the new features of 4.1 and i don,t think you need it, just stay with 3.2 its al for free....


Greets Peter

 

[Sean2E30]

Thanks,

The system monitor says VCOMP 0. I would assume I have IP phone capabilities since I can enable DHCP. Though the only time I've tried it was with an Avaya 4690 and I don't know if it's the phone not working or the switch not recognizing it.

 

[Duffman88]

You need a VCM (Voice Compression Module) to run IP phones. A VCM allows communication between Digital/Analog phones/Trunks to IP Phones/Trunks.

Chris
ACA- Implement IP Office

 

[gknight1]

no you HAVE to have VCM to be able to speak to an IP Phone. it may boot up, but you will have no speech path.

 

[jamie77]

I would keep the 403. I'm not sure what problems Duffmans intructor was talking about but they are (were) very popular in the UK with the DT's on the front and I've had no more issues with them than other controllers.

Why get rid of it if 3.2 will get what you need. Avaya will stil be supporting 3.2 for a while yet and you can always look at the new controller later and just add what you need now.

I would get quotes for changing the lot and for just upgrading what you have and see where you are with that.

Why do you need VM Pro. Would embedded do??

Jamie Green

ACA:Implement - IP Office
ACS:Implement - IP Office

http://www.alliedcom.co.uk

Fooball is not a matter of life and death-It is far more important!!!!

 

[jamie77]

Embedded won't go on the 403 but could make a price difference if you change the lot for a 500

Jamie Green

ACA:Implement - IP Office
ACS:Implement - IP Office

http://www.alliedcom.co.uk

Fooball is not a matter of life and death-It is far more important!!!!

 

[Sean2E30]

Ok, if I keep my current ip403 what about:

If I get a VCM card, How many IP phones can I get?

Also, is there a way I could switch from a PRI to something else that could drop my month phone bill?

-Sean

 

[gknight1]

it depends on the VCM size you get, anywhere from 4-30. You dont necessarily need a VCM for every IP Phone, you just need one for every call you make. for instance we have 5 IP phones here, but only a VCM4, so that means only 4 of us can be on an external call at once.

how many lines do you have?

 

[Duffman88]

With a 406 or IP500 you can run SIP trunks.

The VCM are measured by Concurrent Call Sessions. So if you get a VCM 4 you can have 4 concurrent IP calls, VCM 16 you can have 16 concurrent calls... You can run 10 IP phones but w/ a VCM 4 only have 4 of them on the phone at any time. Don't forget w/ IP phones you need the network switching backbone to handle it. Running QOS is a necessity as well. A network assessment wouldnt be a bad idea as well if you are looking to run 10 IP phones.

At that point you might want to look at having a BP at least consult the work for you. Lots of factors that could lead to crappy call quality or dropped calls.

Chris
ACA- Implement IP Office

 

[Duffman88]

It gets tricky with IP Phones because if you have 10 IP phones they can talk to eachother without sucking up a VCM for the conversation. I believe they need a VCM just for the call setup.

Like I said lots of different factors thrown in to the mix. Also more points of failure or problems now that you are relying on a converged network, bandwidth, protocols, firewalls, vlans etc etc etc...

Properly set up they can run great though.

Chris
ACA- Implement IP Office

 

[Sean2E30]

I've got 11 incoming lines from the PRI.

Also, does the IP406 v2 come with a VCM built in?

-Sean

 

[gknight1]

no, the only unit that comes with i built in is the Small Office Edition. The PRI is probably going to be your cheapest bet. You can use other companies besides your AT&T or Bellsouth, there are CLECS out there with cheaper service.

 

[jamie77]

IP403 will only support upto a VCM 20 (16??) it won't take a VCM 30 unless someone can tell me otherwise.

How many VCM's comes down to how many concurent IP>non IP calls you need.

eg if you have all IP phones and 20 o/g lines then get 20 VCMs to guartantee that the lines can be dialled out on and maybe consider a couple over that to setup IP>IP calls.

Jamie Green

ACA:Implement - IP Office
ACS:Implement - IP Office

http://www.alliedcom.co.uk

Fooball is not a matter of life and death-It is far more important!!!!

 

[Duffman88]

No none built in. The IP403 can have a total of 20 VCM Channels in one card, the 406 can have a total of 30 VCM channels in one card. The ip500 can have 128 on 2 cards. I believe that is the number for the 500.

You can run SIP trunks and save some money on the PRI. Need VCM for those calls as well and a good internet connection.

Chris
ACA- Implement IP Office

 

[jamie77]

If you are thinking SIP forget it if you have faxes/modems running through the system. they don't work on SIP. At least not until we get T38 support!

Jamie Green

ACA:Implement - IP Office
ACS:Implement - IP Office

http://www.alliedcom.co.uk

Fooball is not a matter of life and death-It is far more important!!!!

 

[Duffman88]

Good point.

Chris
ACA- Implement IP Office