Upgrade/Replacement Phone System

[SPYBURN1138]

Hello.

Our company is looking to upgrade/replace our existing NEC IVS2000 phone system (11+ years old and now past end of life status)

We looked at an upgrade but that is looking to cost almost as much a new system.

We were propsed to upgrade to an IPS 2000 solution, but according to the vendor this is a 2-3 year "patch" and they would prefer we replace the system with a full IP solution.

Any advice regarding this project?

We have approx 250 phone is use.

Is anyone else using this type of setup and at this size?

Any recommendations or warnings regarding this?

Dealing with alot of sales people and not getting straight answers.

Appreciate any help or advice.

Thanks.

 

[smoom]

To upgrade your older IVS switch to IPS is called a retrofit upgrade, unfortunetly NEC will be discontinueing this very soon. Your best bet would be to replace your cabinets with new IPS cabinets move your existing line cards into the new cabinets and use your existing phones, unless they are in need of being replaced. Most of your existing cards and phones are compatible and there is no real reason to replace them unless they are failing. As far as going totally IP....good luck. Going with new cabinets would allow you to add IP into your switch as you want to, and still allow you the ability to have your TDM phones as a backup. HOW often do you reboot your computers or how often does your network go down compared to how often you have to rebbot your phone system. Their is nothing wrong with going IP but be aware of what you are getting.

 

[gbaughma]

Well, one of the things that most people forget about when they're looking at upgrade costs is the phones themselves.

NEC, fortunately, is pretty much "backwards compatible" with their phones; so even a brand-new 2000 will support your old dterms.

If you were looking at a completely different phone system, you would have to replace your phones as well.

I don't know about the 2000IPS being a "patch", since with the proper hardware, your entire phone system can be a hybrid IP system; you can use your existing wired phones, put in an IP trunk card, and then add IP phones as you need to, or convert your dterms to IP phones with the conversion box.....

We have a 2000 (upgraded) here, which is about 8 years old, and we're about to put in an IP card that will let us call our main branch over IP, and we're not having to convert any phones.

If your company is looking for a "pure" IP solution, remember that it's not just the cost of the phones then either, but making sure that your switches support QOS, and depending on the solution, may also need to provide POE.

Bottom line is, I really like NEC's flexability when it comes to creating a true hybrid solution, giving you the best of ALL worlds (except for their darned proprietary IP system.... to get mine to talk to a Nortel, I have to put in an H323 gateway.... grrrrr.....)



Just my 2¢

"In order to start solving a problem, one must first identify its owner." --Me
--Greg

 

[MrComputerTelephony]

I would upgrade you to a 2400IPX with that many phones..

 

[smoom]

The only problem upgradeing to a 2400 with only 250 phones is they will have to buy a power plant, batteries, and the software licenses. The cost of the 2400 alone would be over double what is would cost to buy a new IPS when your only talking 250 phones.

 

[gbaughma]

No doubt... 250 phones would be only one BSCM.... Kinda overkill, IMHO, for 250 phones. After all, the 2400 can do over 24,000 connections..... (full "wall")



Just my 2¢

"In order to start solving a problem, one must first identify its owner." --Me
--Greg

 

[SPYBURN1138]

The vendor with whom we were working was pushing pure IP on us, which we really do not need.

They explained to me that the NEC upgrade would not be a long term solution for us.

They are now a ShoreTel provider and this is what they wanted us to look into.

We would like some additional functionality:

1.) Caller ID

2. Need display phones for most staff at this point (so that added another $35,000 to the equation)

3.) Need to migrate to a T1 card rather than copper now in use to accomodate (also added cost for hardware)

4.) New voicemail system (we are on old OS2 version of Call Xpress)

and as all hardware we have is 11+ years old, some concern about failure and life expectancy.

We did look at a Nortel solution.

If given the choice, how would you proceed?

New system or an upgrade?

Thanks again.

 

[OzzieGeorge]

Upgrade beyond a doubt. One thing a lot of companies forget about when going IP is that thier current phone system probably has battery backup which lets them continue to take calls in emergencies. In order to have that functionality with IP systems you are looking at providing UPSs all over the place to keep the lan running. The periodic replacement of all those batteries can be a cripling cost. IP has a niche in the market but those companies who put all their eggs in one basket are asking for trouble. Just look at what happened at NASA!

 

[OzzieGeorge]

Just another point that is worth considering is that if you have a maintenance contract on your system then who benefits from you buying new. It doesn't matter if the phones are 11 years old, we have customers here still using Dterm Vs which are more like 20 to 30 years old and they have only just been advised to change due to the discontinuation of spare parts. And these are large corporate customers.

It's only a couple of years ago I stopped working on the old 12 series and the number of D3s out there is considerable so 11 yrs is nothing. If you are paying maintenance then the age of the system is the maintainers problem not yours.

 

[mextera]

SO many good points here, as others have said the cards and phones you are currently using should be okay to use with a new IPS. The savings in going with this option will allow you to implement some IP phones and keep most of your current configuration. But I must say to all watching this thread do not follow the Retrofit option for when NEC quits offering any support on the hardware then you are at the mercy of your providers inventory and their experience.

NEC PBX IPS the only Hybrid I will use.

Mextera,

 

[OzzieGeorge]

If you intend to upgrade to the new boxes then you need to do it at the outset as the retrofit processor is different to the new processor. The only problem with doing this is to keep the cards you will need more boxes than you should due to the low density of the old cards. Whilst you are being warned about being at the mercy of your providers inventory we are talking 2 to 3 years before support is withdrawn (if I understand correctly as it may be different down here) but then your provider should have some stock and there is also the second hand market. So you should be able to keep it going without any serious problems for about 6 years if not longer. Then it will be worth considering changing the boxes. Like I say we have a large number of users down here still using the D3 solely dependant on the second hand market for spares and these machines are over 20 years old. If your box can have the latest and greatest features why change radically at this point in time?

Look at it this way if you were in this position 6 years ago and could have forseen the changes we have had in the last 6 years. Would you have postponed the change then?

 

[smoom]

I already got information from NEC that they are discontinuing the retrofit CPU, this summer.

 

[OzzieGeorge]

Smoom

By this summer do you mean this year because that will be news to a lot of people who have quotes out there yet to be decided on.

Sorry but I think not.

 

[smoom]

I just checked with one of the salesman, he said the retrofit option has already been pulled from masterquote, he didn't know what would happen to existing quotes, but masterquotes are only valid for a couple of weeks anyway.

 

[OzzieGeorge]

Strange This can't be a global move as we have priced one this week down here! I'll have warn the salesmen.

 

[pave35]

SPYBURN1138
1. Yes the IPS does suport caller ID name and number inbound and outbound for that matter as you would most likely be installing a PRI. I assume this as you state you want to move to a T1 in point 3. A T1 with caller ID would be an ISDN PRI span.
2. You can add display sets obviously and even the newer Dterm Series I sets with ease.
3. See point 1.
4. You could stick with the Call Express on OS/2 or upgrade it to the latest version and the integration is still supported on the IPS. You would see no change. However you could upgrade to an in-Skin IM16 Voice Mail that fits in a slot in the IPS.

"We were propsed to upgrade to an IPS 2000 solution, but according to the vendor this is a 2-3 year "patch" "

This is completely false. I'd like to know where they got this information. There is an NEC road map for the this product that stretches well into the future. Later this year the product is expanding to 2000 ports with more additional remote site IP features so why Japan would continue such major enovation on a "patch" makes no sense to me.

 

[OzzieGeorge]

Pave

My understanding of what Smoom is saying is not that the IPS is a patch but that the Retrofit option will cease to be supported. I will see what I can find out.

 

[smoom]

Ok I spoke with the head of our sales team. He said that a dear associate letter was released May 25, 2006 (2000-06-074) The letter says that as of July 1 they will phase out the retrofit option due to new standards NEC is enacting. He said that migration discounts will be available, and on a small system 2 or less pims the new plan is cheaper plus the customer gets new pims allowing them to use the new voicemails, and IP cards. On larger system it will be more expensive because of replacing the CP15's. Also the letter states effective immediately NEC will no longer quote 4 port cards, and on June 1 Master quote will no longer quote retrofit systems, and shortly will quote IVS to IPS replacement

 

[pave35]

Hence the real reason for the end of life for the retrofit.
NEC has to re-tool as many compoments must be replaced to bring tye product into line with new strict European standards. These standards will eventually reach the US as well. It is not cost effective to revamp the 4 port circuit cards to meet these standards so they are being discontinued.